Can anyone tell if SPPA-T1000 system from Siemens has reference outside of India? We want to have real feedback for this system and comparison with SPPA-T3000. We read on their website that SPPA-T3000 Version 4 has come out and it is very powerful. Has anyone used this system in India? Actually we have very bad feedback for SPPA-T1000 system. System uses poor quality modules and HMI has limited functions. We also got offer from ABB and Honeywell, and both confirm that their systems are used globally and hardware comes from their principals. We find it difficult to believe that a big company like Siemens can use locally made, poor quality hardware for this system. Can someone give genuine feedback?

Pankaj Dave
Procurement Engineer (P&A)

 

Dear Mr.Dave

I have gone through your comments/observations mentioned below.

Before procurement we have also made a comparison of these two very good systems from Siemens. Both use nearly same hardware made by Siemens Germany. SPPAT3000 uses German software and SPPA T1000 uses Indian developed software. Indian software is superior, more flexible and feature-rich. In India service is available only for T1000 system. We decided on T1000 and are satisfied with the performance.

 

We are the users of SPPA T1000. We placed an order with Siemens for DCS for captive power plant in 2004. The I/O modules, communication modules, etc. are from Siemens Germany and controller was from India. During commissioning phase we faced some problems in controller, which was later stablized by Siemens Ltd. In 2006 we placed an order with Siemens Limited, and supply was completed last year where in the controller, I/O modules & communication modules are from Siemens Germany. The system is commissioned in the last quarter of year 2007 & is working satisfactorily. The new controller has the capability of handling 7000 tags and is equipped with performance enhancement algorithm. Our recommendation shall be to insist on imported controller with SPPA T1000, which has a very stable performance.

 

Dear sir,

Can I have your contact details please?

Regards,
Chirag Shah

 

I refer to the remarks given by you. I fully agree with you on the same. Imported hardware with local software is the right techno-commercial solution for India. The problem is that some big MNCs like ABB are misusing this and are supplying cheap and low grade hardware from China. In such a case I would take local hardware from India.

 

Yes for sure! Swiss technology with Indian price is best & ABB can supply this, but you must pay for it and not always demand lowest price.

 

SPPA-T1000 is the base system on which the fundamentals of SPPA-T3000 are built. SPPA-T1000 is a strong system with multiple features and flexibility of configurations. SPPA-T3000 uses a restricted set of features from SPPA-T1000 and is more oriented towards Siemens PLC family Simatic S7. For non-standard and high redundancy architectures of DCS, SPPA-T1000 is a good investment.

 

With the powerful SIRUG P controller, SPPA-T1000 is the most reliable DCS in the Siemens family. We are using it in our power plant now for more than one year. The operation is stable and smooth with not a single fault.

Although we have not used SPPA-T3000 but from our observations in a international exhibition abroad, we have doubts whether Indian utilities can accept SPPA-T3000 because it has low-end battery-backed CPU and a single ring data highway.

 

I do not agree with some of your observations against Siemens SPPA-T3000.

(1) If you want, Siemens can supply you T3000 with dual ring data highway. But redundancy is always a waste of engineering effort and money. To keep your CAPEX (capital expenditure) low, you should take single ring.

(2) Battery-backed CPU is good feature of SPPA-T3000. The battery saves CPU memory during transport, storing, shutdown and power failure. Siemens therefore gives us battery backup for CPU to protect our data. Other systems like SPPA-T1000 and from other companies do not give this feature.

 

Deejay,
(1)We are getting supply of big steam turbines from Siemens together with SPPA-T3000. We do not trust reliability of single ring bus. Please tell where Siemens has supplied double ring bus so that we can also demand for it.

(2)Your view point on battery backup is technically not correct. Battery backup CPUs were used in early DCS and even now in some PLC. Nowdays,non volatile memories are used. They do not require battery back up because memory data never gets lost. CPUs of modern and good DCS do not require battery for back up. If Siemens uses battery backup, it means that SPPA-T3000 is nothing more than a decorated PLC.

This brings one more point. Siemens is big company and can force customer to take SPPA-T3000 with turbines. Otherwise, no guarantee. Why customer has no choice to evaluate and choose other Siemens DCS like PCS7, Teleperm XP, T1000 or T2000? We want to discuss this in ISA meeting.

 

As consultants,we have done a technical comparison of all DCS from major suppliers on a scale of 10 (1=worst and 10=best).

The ratings of the 5 Siemens systems which were evaluated are:

1. SPPA-T1000 with SIRUG Power CPU (8.2)
2. Simatic PCS7 (7.6)
3. SPPA-T3000 with Simatic S7 CPU (7.0)
4. SPPA-T2000 with Simatic S7 CPU (6.6)
5. SPPA-T2000 with Simatic S5 CPU(5.8).(Now outdated).

We recommend an acceptance cutoff of 6.0 to our customers.

 

Nowadays Siemens PPA T3000 is a continuation of its outdated I&C systems like TXP, TME, etc. Why we should buy an older system?

 

I wish to bring to kind notice of all users that SPPA-T3000 is much more powerful than what are all described here. It looks there is less awareness. Please get in touch with Siemens to know more about SPPA-T3000

 

see more general information regarding SPPA T3000 on this website
www.sppaworld.co.cc

 

SPPA T3000 series has been developed in USA. The system work on thin client based architecture, SCADA station is java based. This is a major drawback for industrial application. Application server is single with two nos mother board ( Refer their architecture). The system is single fault tolerant. If one server fails no one to take care. IO module they are used from their PLC series ET200M. Hence it shows that Head (Software) has developed for DCS application , still the hardware used from PLC platform. It is a mixure of PLC & DCS system.