In recently upgraded 4 GTG F-7E (Non DLN)from Mark IV to Mark VIe. I am hungry for these questions. Our set up is like this. Mark VIe controller (RST) in each control cab with its own HMI. for example GTG1, 2, 3, 4. So there are 4 Mark VIe, 4 HMI + one HMI in control room, and one in engineering room.

How do I know which HMI is server or viewer?

I read a lot about client-server. So who is client and who is server here? I am an operator here, but i would like to know about Mark VIe from this forum. Our plant people still rely on GE since we were a beta site for M4 to M6e. And nobody is expert in IT. This is just a beginning of this thread, as I get more involved, more questions will pop-up. I recently found this side and am sure that there are people (Process Value CSA etc) will come forward to help me. I am trying to change my field for personnel reasons.

I really appreciate anybody's help and thank you everybody in advance.

Thanks
sardar9

 

Start by studying the "4108" drawing. It is a network architecture diagram, and will show which HMI's are servers and which are not. There is usually an overview diagram on sheet 3 or 4, and then a detailed network diagram on the next 2 or 3 sheets. Then there is usually a sheet that shows hardwired external interfaces to the control panels, followed by sheets showing network switch configurations. Sheet 1 is notes and sheet 2 is usually a hardware list.

I am surprised you only have one HMI in the control room - I would have recommended at least two in the control room. Maybe that's a consequence of being a beta site.

 

>Start by studying the "4108" drawing.

Thanks, Our control room take care of water and fuel areas along with STG (Triconix). Honeywll TDC 3000 in control room. In real world nobody look and act upon any alarm on HMI, all actions are detected by or called upon by TDC 3000. Even in control cab nobody bothers to look into the alarm screen as if it does not exist, very weird but true. That is what I say here that we run Mark VIe via TDC 3000. But that's upto the management. Where I can find your reference drawing "4108". All this i am doing on my own without any support, so depending upon my time I will move. But trust me, this will always be my priority # 1. I think I have access to all manual.

thank for your time, please keep writing

 

My understand is that there is no Cimplicity Server. Cimplicity (7.5) polls data via OPC (not EGD) from The Controllers (RST) on the UDH. Unlike it was done in the past where the GT1_SVR ran the cimplicity server (UDH) and CRM_SVR ran a viewer (PDH).

 

>Where I can find your reference drawing "4108".

This is a drawing provided by GE. Where you store drawings at your site is unknown to me. "4108" is GE's MLI (model list item) for this document. It will have a number of the form nnnBnnnn. ("n" means any digit from 0 to 9, although the first n is most likely 2)

 

The site sardar9 works at does not have CIMPLICITY 7.5; as I recently learned, it's only recently started shipping with Speedtronic control systems.

Communications between the TDC3000 and the Mark <b>VIe</b> are most likely done via a MODBUS link between the TDC3000 and the Mark <b>VIe</b> control panels.

The single HMI in the Control Room is most likely used for trending and troubleshooting since most control is done via the TDC3000, or, just for back-up in case one of the MODBUS links goes down. And the HMI designated as the Engineering Workstation is most likely used for trending and troubleshooting by the I&C crew.

It's likely that all the HMIs at sardar9's site are CIMPLICITY Servers, and there are no CIMPLICITY Viewers at that site. CIMPLICITY Viewers were commonly used with Mark V control systems, because there was a "limit" of two CIMPLICITY HMI servers per Mark V, and if there were more than two HMIs per Mark V at a site, then some were Viewers. As with everything GE does, this isn't a hard and fast rule, because there have been posters here who have said they were able to have more than two CIMPLICITY Servers per Mark V (probably by getting rid of the CIMPLICITY Frame Container display scheme, though they never provided any details that were useful to others).

I'm not sure why sardar9 needs to understand server-viewer relationships, but everyone starts somewhere, right? And not usually in the same place when they are self-learning, like at most sites.

 

Well given that you have high hopes in us, it is quite mandatory that we keep it up

mark Vie networks

I am giving a brief overview of the mark vie networks , please refer markvie system guide 1 / chapter 3 networks. This chapter will give you a overall outlook into how networks are configured in the mark vie.

The control and supervisory layer in mark vie network is called UDH (unit data highway) and PDH (Plant data highway).

The control layer is the interface between the controller and the plant HMI server and engineering station. engineering stations which use toolbox for controller configurations are connected to the UDH. The udh is a Ethernet based layer and the controllers and the computers residing in the UDH have a unique IP no. The toolbox uses this ip no to communicate with the controllers. A single plant UDH can have upto 25 ( please check the manual regarding this figure , i am recalling this from memory) nodes. HMI servers which use cimplicity are also connected to the UDH. the cimplicty uses EGD to collect data from the processor. IF a computer needs to function as a HMI server then the "cimplicity server" option must be installed. A single computer station can be setup as both a engineering station as well as a HMI server.

The supervisory layer is what which interfaces between the Plant HMI servers and HMI viwers. The Supervisory layer provides operator interface capabilities such as to coordinate HMI viewer and server nodes, and other functions like data collection (Historian). Computers connected to this layer do not have toolbox installed in them.

What you should do?

after reading the manual you will now understand how the networks are configured. now find the plant network diagram , it will contain details of how the computers are connected to the UDH and PDH. from your configuration , there will be at least 12 routers installed in your facility. (2 for each GT , rest 4 for interconnection , other computers and future expansion. ) with the network diagram try to trace how the network is connected to the routers and computers. from your configuration it is my guess that your plant network will look like this (from what i know of how GE/BHEL network philosophy)<pre>

UDH Connection PDH connection Toolbox Installed Cimplicity version

GT-1 HMI yes yes yes server
GT-2 HMI yes yes yes server
GT-3 HMI yes yes yes server
GT-4 HMI yes yes yes server
Eng station yes yes yes server
con room may be yes may be server or viewer </pre>

It is a general practice to install toolbox in computers which are connected to UDH , CIMPLICITy can be configures in three ways , Server mode , development viewer mode or viewer mode. Computers connected to UDH will have cimplicity server version installed , computers connected to PDH only will have a development viewer or a ordinary viewer installed.

from the above you see a typical GE connection. you can see UDh and PDH connection in a computer just by looking at its network connection. If your computer has UDH only or UDH and PDH connection then it is in the control layer , if it has only PDH connection it is in the supervisory layer. The cimplicity version installed can be known by checking with the cimplicty plant edition welcome page.

Note : i recently read this

"Honeywll TDC 3000 in control room. In real world nobody look and act upon any alarm on HMI, all actions are detected by or called upon by TDC 3000. Even in control cab nobody bothers to look into the alarm screen as if it does not exist, very weird but true. That is what I say here that we run Mark VIe via TDC 3000. But that's upto the management."

The Mark VIe control can be linked to the plant DCS in three different ways.

a. Serial Modbus Slave link from the HMI server RS-232C port or from optional dedicated gateway controller to the DCS

b. A high speed 100 Mbaud Ethernet link using the Modbus Slave over TCP/IP protocol

c. A high speed 100 Mbaud Ethernet link using the TCP/IP protocol with an application layer called GEDS Standard Messages (GSM)

i am tanking a guess here , option A , serial modbus slave link would have been used. each from the GT-# HMI. coming to think of it i have never seen the other two implemented anywhere .

 

> Well given that you have high hopes in us, it is quite mandatory that we keep
> it up

Thank you gurus, now this question for PV, CSA, Otised, Demigrog, MarkV(?) and all experts here on this forum.

System 4 F7E, Mark VIe.
In 192.168.101.AB, 101 means PDH (?)
In XXX.XXX.201.AB, 201 means UDH (?)

I am presenting following IP addresses for all the server or (nodes) we have here.

CRM_SVR(241543360 / XXX.XXX.101.14) (9Digits)
EWS1_SVR(9 digits / XXX.XXX.101.20) (9digits)
G1(1868933312 / XXX.XXX.101.111)(10 digits)
G1_Modbus_Slave(1936042176 / XXX.XXX.101.115)(10dgt)
G2( 10 digits / XXX.xxx.101.121)
G2_Modbus_Slave(10 digits / XXX.XXX.101.125)
G3(10 digits / XXX.XXX.101.131)
G3_modbus_Slave (10 digits / XXX.XXX.101.135)
G4 (10 digits / XXX.XXX.101.141.)
G4_modbus_Slave( 10digtis / XXX.XXX.101.145)
GT1_SVR(40216768 / XXX.XXX.101.2)
GT2_SVR (8 digits / XXX.XXX.101.3)
GT3_SVR( 8 digits/ XXX.XXX.101.4)
GT4_SVR(8 digits/ XXX.XXX.101.5)
HST1( 9digits/ XXX.XXX.101.38)
NTP(4200966336/ XXX.XXX.101.250)( 10 digits)

Now this is taken from EGD page while viewing differences. All these nodes are on PDH (101), then why do we have UDH?(missing UDH or XXX.xxx.201.ABC)

All SVR in respective control cab have 8 digts code, why?
SVR means respective HMI eg GT1_SVR means HMI in control cab of GTG1, right?

All Gx OR Gx_Modbus_Slave (x=1 to 4), are they designated controller among R,S,T ? Modbus has only one CPCI card.
CPCI has 10 digits, why?

HSD1, EWS1_SVR, CRM1_SVR all have 9 digits,why?
NTP has 10 digits?
All CPCI means 10 digits any meaning?
Are these number of digits mean anything?
If we expand + we get
=ConsumedData
=EGDProfile
=GeSymbolTable
=GUiDevice
=ProducedData
=Symboltable
= mean healthy? what are those description stand for?

Other question,I don't recall but what is the difference between INTIAL VALUE and LIVE VALUE. Which values should be changed if needed, don't remember on which page this was done by inst tech (I am operator).

Hopefully there are no typo errors. I thank you all of you in advance

 

You've got the UDH and PDH backwards; the UDH is almost always 192.168.101.xx.

The EGD Configuration Server -> View Differences tool is used for diagnosing relatively unusual problems; the most common one is caused by using ToolboxST from multiple computers with different copies of the TCW and device files. The = indicates that the EGD Configuration Server's view of the EGD node matches the version on disk on the PC you are using. If they do not match, a not-equal sign is shown.

The 8, 9 or 10 digit code is an IP address written out as a decimal number; you're looking at EGD producer IDs, which by convention are usually the same as the primary IP address of the device producing them.

The sub nodes refer to each of the XML files that make up the EGD configuration for a device. It is doubtful that you'll ever care about the contents of these files yourself.

Hope that satisfies your curiosity, though I can't imagine the Differences tool is much use to you.

 

Forgot to mention, the Initial versus Live value. The Live value is the running value of a particular variable, while the Initial value is what the Live value is initialized to when the Mark VIe powers up or is rebooted. The Live Value is sometimes preserved between reboots by marking it as Non-volatile. Live values are the most commonly modified, usually by double-clicking a green number in ToolboxST or modifying it from the HMI.

 

> You've got the UDH and PDH backwards; the UDH is almost always
> 192.168.101.xx.

Thank you sir,

we have two network PDH and UDH, looking at all the nodes (addresses). it seems they all are on UDH. how can I find which node is on PDH? for example is there any node (which I may be missing) has address like 192.168.102.xx ( s you mentioned 102 means PDH)? if not, why PDH?

Thanks

 

PDH IP addresses are usually 192.168.201.xx, but I have seen some variation on this at sites.

The System diagram in ToolboxST should show visually which networks each node is connected to. In general, Servers, Workstations and HMIs are on the PDH and UDH, while actual controls are only on the UDH. The WorkstationST server provides OPC-DA and other communications protocols, so there are often other PCs on the PDH that do not show up in the Mark VIe's view of the world.

 

What is the procedure for adding an additional HMI to the PDH