B
I found a GE on site monitor server on popular trading post. What sort of value does this have? What can I expect to pay for this?
Interesting question.
A GE OSM is nothing more than an IBM-compatible PC with a NIC (Network Interface Card) to communicate with Speedtronic panel(s) and some proprietary software to gather and transmit data, usually over another NIC to a GE Monitoring & Diagnostics Center computer located somewhere around the world.
Are you considering buying this as a "spare" for an OSM you already have?
Are you considering buying this to use as a "primary" OSM for a new Remote M&D contract with GE?
Configuring OSMs is pretty complicated, and I doubt it would be an easy or straightforward task to convert one from another site to one that could be used at your site. I also don't believe GE would allow a 'previously owned' OSM to be used for a new M&D contract; they would likely supply a new PC for the site, along with the network switch/firewall.
Unless you are extremely competent with GE Speedtronic systems, and in this case with configuring OSMs, this would likely be a huge undertaking. I'm confident the OSM is being sold "As Is"--meaning that it will not be supported or warranted for any purpose by the seller. So, any effort required for configuration for a particular site/application would fall on the purchaser.
I'm also confident that GE would likely not support reconfiguration of any 'previously owned' OSM for any new site. You may get extremely lucky and have a GE field service person come to site who could complete this task with little or no help from the Remote M&D center(s), but the chances of that are somewhere between zero and none.
If you are competent and capable of re-configuring this PC for use at your site, then it has some value as a spare OSM. But, that value is only based on your ability to affect the re-configuration successfully.
So, all of the above seriously affects the value of any device you might buy--unless you have the resources and knowledge, or can source the resources and knowledge, to re-configure the device AND are willing to absorb all of the costs (and frustration) of doing so. Unless you are considering re-configuring the OSM to match your site's (as a "hot spare") <b>AND</b> the OSM <b>exactly</b> matches your existing configuration the value is not very high.
In my personal estimation it's worth about whatever a similarly configured, 'previously owned' comparable IBM-compatible PC is worth. This because unless you have or can obtain the services to reconfigure the OSM--either for your site or for another site (if you're considering trying to re-sell it), it's only worth is as a used PC.
The only exception to this is if the OSM includes a legacy ISA bus ARCnet card, and then that card is aged and it's life expectancy is unknown.
A GE OSM is nothing more than an IBM-compatible PC with a NIC (Network Interface Card) to communicate with Speedtronic panel(s) and some proprietary software to gather and transmit data, usually over another NIC to a GE Monitoring & Diagnostics Center computer located somewhere around the world.
Are you considering buying this as a "spare" for an OSM you already have?
Are you considering buying this to use as a "primary" OSM for a new Remote M&D contract with GE?
Configuring OSMs is pretty complicated, and I doubt it would be an easy or straightforward task to convert one from another site to one that could be used at your site. I also don't believe GE would allow a 'previously owned' OSM to be used for a new M&D contract; they would likely supply a new PC for the site, along with the network switch/firewall.
Unless you are extremely competent with GE Speedtronic systems, and in this case with configuring OSMs, this would likely be a huge undertaking. I'm confident the OSM is being sold "As Is"--meaning that it will not be supported or warranted for any purpose by the seller. So, any effort required for configuration for a particular site/application would fall on the purchaser.
I'm also confident that GE would likely not support reconfiguration of any 'previously owned' OSM for any new site. You may get extremely lucky and have a GE field service person come to site who could complete this task with little or no help from the Remote M&D center(s), but the chances of that are somewhere between zero and none.
If you are competent and capable of re-configuring this PC for use at your site, then it has some value as a spare OSM. But, that value is only based on your ability to affect the re-configuration successfully.
So, all of the above seriously affects the value of any device you might buy--unless you have the resources and knowledge, or can source the resources and knowledge, to re-configure the device AND are willing to absorb all of the costs (and frustration) of doing so. Unless you are considering re-configuring the OSM to match your site's (as a "hot spare") <b>AND</b> the OSM <b>exactly</b> matches your existing configuration the value is not very high.
In my personal estimation it's worth about whatever a similarly configured, 'previously owned' comparable IBM-compatible PC is worth. This because unless you have or can obtain the services to reconfigure the OSM--either for your site or for another site (if you're considering trying to re-sell it), it's only worth is as a used PC.
The only exception to this is if the OSM includes a legacy ISA bus ARCnet card, and then that card is aged and it's life expectancy is unknown.
B
bicycle Mechanic
Interesting question.
The PITCH
I have been told this unit can collect data from remote location over the plant data highway(PDH), and without connection to a stagelink.
The question I have is.....can an osm interface a plants HMI (CRM) server directly via a tcp/ip connection.
2) Can such an OSM be used as a troubleshooting tool for
an outside contractor if configured.
The PITCH
I have been told this unit can collect data from remote location over the plant data highway(PDH), and without connection to a stagelink.
The question I have is.....can an osm interface a plants HMI (CRM) server directly via a tcp/ip connection.
2) Can such an OSM be used as a troubleshooting tool for
an outside contractor if configured.
As with all GE operator interface/HMI products, the OSM has gone through several iterations. Some communicated via the StageLink (with Mark V turbine control panels), and others communicated via the PDH with the HMI running CIMPLICITY and TCI to obtain data indirectly from the Speedtronic turbine control panels.
In all cases these OSMs run proprietary software for obtaining the data. I've been told some newer versions use OPC but there is still a proprietary "connection" which GE feels is necessary to "firewall" the turbine control nodes (HMIs and Mark V Speedtronic turbine control panels communicating using StageLink; HMIs and Mark VI/VIe turbine control panels using UDH).
And, as in all cases with GE operator interfaces/HMIs (including OSMs) the dearth of documentation is staggering. And the availability of support is just as staggering.
I believe the OSM, which started as a product of the group headquartered in Salem, VA, USA, has migrated to the control and development of another group which I believe is headquartered in Atlanta, GA, USA. As they are usually provided with CSAs (Contractual Services Agreements--not associated with this author!) and in some cases provided where GE has significant warranty obligations and concerns, they are not generally considered to have "user-serviceable" parts or software. Generally, GE sends field service personnel to site if there are problems with OSMs that can't be resolved with a "three-finger salute" to the OSM or by remotely re-booting the firewall/network switch.
A couple of OPC vendors (Matrikon and Kepware, both, I believe) have developed means of obtaining information directly from Mark V and Mark VI turbine control panels. A control.com advertiser we haven't heard from in a while, CSE Engineering, Inc., (www.cse-eng-inc.com) has an operator interface that can obtain data and make it available via OPC. Brief information on that can be obtained from www.itc-info.us under the Options - Comm Gateway tab.
I would imagine if you could obtain or had the ability to configure the OSM you could use it to provide data to another computer-based system for use by anyone. This would be like having a GE Historian gathering data and archiving it in a PI-based system, or more recently in a GE IP PROFICY-based system.
How much time (read: money) do you have to invest in this product?
Best of luck with your endeavour! Let us know how you proceed and fare.
In all cases these OSMs run proprietary software for obtaining the data. I've been told some newer versions use OPC but there is still a proprietary "connection" which GE feels is necessary to "firewall" the turbine control nodes (HMIs and Mark V Speedtronic turbine control panels communicating using StageLink; HMIs and Mark VI/VIe turbine control panels using UDH).
And, as in all cases with GE operator interfaces/HMIs (including OSMs) the dearth of documentation is staggering. And the availability of support is just as staggering.
I believe the OSM, which started as a product of the group headquartered in Salem, VA, USA, has migrated to the control and development of another group which I believe is headquartered in Atlanta, GA, USA. As they are usually provided with CSAs (Contractual Services Agreements--not associated with this author!) and in some cases provided where GE has significant warranty obligations and concerns, they are not generally considered to have "user-serviceable" parts or software. Generally, GE sends field service personnel to site if there are problems with OSMs that can't be resolved with a "three-finger salute" to the OSM or by remotely re-booting the firewall/network switch.
A couple of OPC vendors (Matrikon and Kepware, both, I believe) have developed means of obtaining information directly from Mark V and Mark VI turbine control panels. A control.com advertiser we haven't heard from in a while, CSE Engineering, Inc., (www.cse-eng-inc.com) has an operator interface that can obtain data and make it available via OPC. Brief information on that can be obtained from www.itc-info.us under the Options - Comm Gateway tab.
I would imagine if you could obtain or had the ability to configure the OSM you could use it to provide data to another computer-based system for use by anyone. This would be like having a GE Historian gathering data and archiving it in a PI-based system, or more recently in a GE IP PROFICY-based system.
How much time (read: money) do you have to invest in this product?
Best of luck with your endeavour! Let us know how you proceed and fare.
Hello guys,
Is it mandatory using a GE Speedtronic tubine PLC in order to use OSM service? Or is it possible using a third-party turbine PLC providing data to OSM service?
Is it mandatory using a GE Speedtronic tubine PLC in order to use OSM service? Or is it possible using a third-party turbine PLC providing data to OSM service?
Hello guys,
In my practise was a case, when OSM server was disconnected because of company security policicy. And you can use OSM server and this collected data by using special tools, but if something wrong will happen you can't do anything. OSM server is like black box without description and of course you need a support from GE eng.center for correct operation. I think this option (OSM) is available only for GE gas turbine with Mark family controllers because GE uses their stored experience using HDGT and ADGT, ST units .
In my practise was a case, when OSM server was disconnected because of company security policicy. And you can use OSM server and this collected data by using special tools, but if something wrong will happen you can't do anything. OSM server is like black box without description and of course you need a support from GE eng.center for correct operation. I think this option (OSM) is available only for GE gas turbine with Mark family controllers because GE uses their stored experience using HDGT and ADGT, ST units .
The OSM is GE's way of securely monitoring customer's GTs and and collecting data to bring it back to their M&D center. They will only provide and OSM if this attaches to their GE assets. In some cases, it is helpful for the customer, because GE can better support the customer when issues occur. i.e. they can help do DLN tuning remotely. So, if it is some 3rd party PLC, GE will not know how to operate the control system to gather the data and provide support for the customer. The system is designed so that you cannot connect to any HMIs on site, and the OSM can only see Mark V/VI/Vie data. The GE OSM is only to be used by GE. Customers cannot access this at all.
If you (end users) want to make your own OSM, you will have to design it on your own. GE will not help in any capacity. The end user will have to buy the PC, modify the network, setup the software themselves, create their own M&D center, etc.
Their are folks out there than can support this, if you want.
If you (end users) want to make your own OSM, you will have to design it on your own. GE will not help in any capacity. The end user will have to buy the PC, modify the network, setup the software themselves, create their own M&D center, etc.
Their are folks out there than can support this, if you want.
ali.mok66,
Your request is not related in any way to an OSM.
Please open a new thread. You will learn that ARES (Adaptive Real-time Engine Simulation), also known as MBC (Model-Based Control). as practiced by GE is considered proprietary and there is very little if any written documentation about the functionality and the block used to implement it. It's purpose is to try to model (simulate) how an engine (gas turbine engine in this case) which is operating normally would perform and then alert operators to potential problems which, if resolved, would increase efficiency and power output.
This functionality requires MANY sensors, many of which are also redundant, and a lot of proprietary "hidden" logic and parameters and algorithms in the block to do its thing. While some of the parameters are visible to technicians or operators, the algorithms are usually not. About the only people who can tell if it's working properly or not are GE remote monitoring personnel.
In the future, if your question/request is unrelated to something you've found in Control.com please open a new thread to ask for information or help.
Your request is not related in any way to an OSM.
Please open a new thread. You will learn that ARES (Adaptive Real-time Engine Simulation), also known as MBC (Model-Based Control). as practiced by GE is considered proprietary and there is very little if any written documentation about the functionality and the block used to implement it. It's purpose is to try to model (simulate) how an engine (gas turbine engine in this case) which is operating normally would perform and then alert operators to potential problems which, if resolved, would increase efficiency and power output.
This functionality requires MANY sensors, many of which are also redundant, and a lot of proprietary "hidden" logic and parameters and algorithms in the block to do its thing. While some of the parameters are visible to technicians or operators, the algorithms are usually not. About the only people who can tell if it's working properly or not are GE remote monitoring personnel.
In the future, if your question/request is unrelated to something you've found in Control.com please open a new thread to ask for information or help.
Which part of MBC ARES part you want to learn about?
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