BMS and PLC Vendors

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Thread Starter

Mufeed

I know now that the NFPA8501/8502 standard is recommending to use one PLC per Fuel Gas Boiler for BMS application. Can any one advise whether there is further requirement or specification for
the PLC, type, material of construction, I/O cards material, location, ...., etc.

Furthermore, what are BMS vendors or PLC models that can be used for BMS application ?

Thanks to all list contributors

Regards

MAG
 
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Arnold Dillon

NFPA in general REQUIRES that one PLC be dedicated to each BMS system and that other functions not be performed within that PLC (such as combustion control of the firing rate). Multiple burner boilers can use single PLC's for all elements associated with that burner train.

I don't know of any specific NFPA approvals of equipment by manufacturer. There are some requirements for monitoring processor functions and detecting failures to get FM approval. In fact some recent revisions to the FM approval based in an IEC standard apparently require some very specific diagnostic capability for failure detection in order to avoid unsafe conditions resulting from undetected component failure.

Hope this information is of some help.

Arnold Dillon
I.C. Thomasson Associates
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
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Paul Gruhn, P.E. Moore Process Automatio

The quoted NFPA standards state the features that must be provided by, or built into, the PLC. General purpose PLCs do not include these features as standard, so they must be engineering in, which raises cost and complexity. (At least one general purpose PLC vendor has even written a paper for ISA on this.) There are safety related PLCs that do include these features as standard. Also, FM released a standard last December (#7605 - Programmable Logic Control Based Burner Management Systems), which states in section 1.4
"Compliance of the hardware and software to the requirements of IEC 61508 Standard on Functional Sarfety of Programmable Electronic Systems". General purpose PLCs are not certified against IEC 61508, although most all of the safety PLCs are. (Some vendors that have been approved by FM to older standards have been given 1-year to 'catch-up' with the new standard.) A list of certified systems is available at TUVs website at wwww.tuvps.com. Depending upon your insurance carrier, much of this may not really matter.

Paul Gruhn, P.E.
 
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Miller, Chuck (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)

GE Fanuc offers a wide range of off the shelf redundancy products which are designed to meet the requirements of the NFPA specifications in flame management applications. Some information can be obtained from the GE Fanuc website at www.gefanuc.com/criticalcontrol . Additionally, you can identify your local GE distributor by calling 1-800-GE FANUC or e-mail @
chuck.miller.cho.ge.com for specific inquiries.

Thanks
Chuck Miller
281) 495-0333 Fax: (281) 495-0370
e-mail [email protected]
website:www.gefanuc.com/criticalcontrol
 
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(TECO) David Bergeron

> I know now that the NFPA8501/8502 standard is recommending
> to use one PLC per Fuel Gas Boiler for BMS application. Can
> any one advice weather there is further requirement or
> specification for the PLC, type, material of construction, I/O
> cards material, location, ....,etc.

I don't know if there are additional NFPA requirements, but TUV certifies shutdown systems. Systems that specialize in
safety/shutdown applications are usually TUV certified.

> Furthermore, what are BMS vendors or PLC models that can be
> used for BMS application ?

ABB makes a triple redundant shutdown system called August.

David Bergeron, P.E.
Thompson Equipment co.
504-833-6381
www.thompson-equipment.com
 
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Paul Gruhn, P.E. Moore Process Automatio

NFPA 8501/2 *DO* list requirements for the PLC, in terms of diagnostics, etc. Note that FM has a new standard (7605), released in December 1999, on
PLC based burner management systems. Section 1.4.2 states: "Compliance of the hardware and software to the requirements of IEC 61508 standard on Functional Safety of Programmable Electronic Systems." There are a number of systems that have such certifications, as listed at www.tuvps.com. One doesn't need to go to the extreme of using TMR (Triple Modular Redundancy)
to have a certified system, as there are single and dual systems certified as well.
 
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Berger, Ian (LGE-DA)

Will there be a point when these BMS standards become required for the semiconductor industry (that is for alarm shutdown of their
hazardous/toxic gasses, and chemicals)?
 
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Richard Flavell-While

>NFPA 8501/2 *DO* list requirements for the PLC, in terms of diagnostics,
>etc. Note that FM has a new standard (7605), released in December 1999, on
>PLC based burner management systems. Section 1.4.2 states: "Compliance of
>the hardware and software to the requirements of IEC 61508 standard on
>Functional Safety of Programmable Electronic Systems." There are a number of
>systems that have such certifications, as listed at www.tuvps.com. One
>doesn't need to go to the extreme of using TMR (Triple Modular Redundancy)
>to have a certified system, as there are single and dual systems certified
>as well.

Agreed, but the main reason for using TMR is availability.

TUV certification to IEC 61508 is a bit strange, According to my understanding of the standard you can't apply it retrospectively. I.e. A controller developed under the control of an earlier standard can not achieve IEC61508 because the standard covers the whole of the development
process. And yet I still see TUV certificates for older PLC with 61508 approval?

>
>ABB makes a triple redundant shutdown system called August.
>

August is actually the old company name, not the system name. ABB acquired August Systems Ltd about 3 years ago, which became ABB August Ltd. The system itself is called TriGuard. There is also a dual system called SafeGuard from ABB Industri in Oslo, both are TUV approved to AK6/ SIL3.

"Even a PC can achieve SIL3, If you cover all eventualities in the Safety Requirement Specification & Safety Manual. It just wouldn't do a lot." Actual quote from TUV!

Regards
Richard Flavell-While
Software Development Manager
ABB August Ltd.
 
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