Hello to all,

I need your help choosing between two DCS systems for 250 MW coal unit. Two biggest competitors are ABB 800 xA and Emerson Ovation. I know very little about Ovation.

It seems that 800xA is newer than Ovation and I have some experience with their AC800M controllers. In order to choose right I need additional information:

1. How old is 800xA comparing with Ovation?
2. Which has larger portion of market?

Both producers claims it is state of the art and similar, but it is very hard to find all objective information on their web sites. What is your experience? What would be better choice in long run (say, at least 10 yers)?

Thank you

 

Some differences are below:

Cost; 800xA has higher initial cost compared to the Ovation. This is true for the full 800xA platform. However scaled down versions (Process Portal) compare reasonably well.

Support; ABB market an Evolution strategy i.e. when they will support existing hardware/software and always offer an equivalent newer product should technology advance as it will.

Simplicity; Ovation seems to be a lot simpler to work on. 800xA uses more server /client architecture so IT skills need to be improved.

Marketbase; Ovation system is based on old Westinghouse System for nuclear plants. ABB have a good track record with their Bailey and Advant Systems.

I recomend you invite ABB and Emerson to pitch their products to you. My personal choice is ABB. The look and feel of the 800xA is really good.

Good luck
Rob

 

If this application is for the power industry, then there are some serious concerns...

800xa continues to implement the APC portion ( power controls) with the use of visual basic, now an obsolete microsoft technoloty.

Furthermore, if you have a 800xa equipment failure and replace computers, the licenses will break. The APC license is maintained out of Germany and you will wait several days or longer to have new strings generated to get the replacement equipment on line.

Periodic microsoft software rollups will be required and take on average of a week to implent while you will be down.

Your very best solution to day is to keep your I/O subsystems intact, and to upgrade your HMI side with hi performance unix based workstations.

This is minimum impact to your operations, quickly done, and at a most handsome price.

I would ask for further information by visiting workstationsexpress.com and filling out the form.

Keep in mind that this product extensively uses Microsoft software that is succecptable to viruses, instability, and constant upgrades.

With a Unix upgrade, you are done once - -for life.

 

Bob,

does this mean that Ovation uses Unix OS? What would you recommend?

Thanks

 

I had been into DCS engineering and commissioning for Power Plants. I have heard Emerson has an edge over 800xa. But, please insure that you get the right softwares installed because many of the new versions coming into the market have bugs.

 

Hello Gaurav,

800 xa is the DCS of ABB & not of emerson.

 

do you have other option like CS3000 or CENTUM VP of Yokogawa?

 

Yes, he said that Emerson has an edge on the 800xa. This means that in his opinion Ovation is a better product than 800xa.

I have heard Yokogawa Centum/PRM is a difficult product to set up and use.

 

Industrial IT 800xA is a powerful proven concept. If you need to decide for a NEW system, don't hesitate the best option is the 800xA.

Best Regards

 

There are at least seven major DCS systems that can be used in power. Each of them has their own shortcomings and benefits. No one should add or remove a DCS vendor from their short list because of comments on a mailing list.

You need to determine what features and functions you must have (critical) and which are should have (high want) and which are nice to have... And map the various DCS systems against that. For example, it may be of great benefit to you to have the system operate in a state-based control architecture...in which case you might lean toward the System 800xA. You might find the decentralized architecture of the Siemens PCS7 and the Rockwell Logix and Factory Talk platform works better. You might...well you get the point.

There's no substitute for doing your homework, knowing your system, understanding your requirements and sticking to your guns when the prices start dropping.

If you don't, you get the system you deserve.

Walt Boyes
Editor in Chief
Control and Controlglobal.com
www.controlglobal.com
Mailto:wboyes [at] putman.net
Read my blog SoundOFF!! At www.controlglobal.com/soundoff

 

Hello,

I have no more experience with ABB DCS 800xa system.

However I am working at power plant using Ovation System 3.0.2 based on Windows OS. Now in commissioning stage.

Accroding to me
- Software is so easy to use.
- Hardware depend on you Emerson have some type of I/O modules. If your cost of project is small or you have not experience about Ovation, they can supply type is not good.

In our project, the modules I/O sometime are failure.

My personal think that they have some issues to pay attention when you choice DCS system:

1. Devices: type of devices, please read very carefully the specification of device before decide.

2. Designer: it is very important, in our project the desingers from China are very poor, so we must modify many think in the field.

3. Commissioning Engineer Team, in our project, they are from China, very poor.

Tuanba
batdk2k43 [at] gmail.com

 

Hello Walt,

Glad I ran into your post, so I share this very important information with you.

You may be aware that there is an ABB ADVANT system in use for the power industry today. This runs an application called APC originally designed by Alstom, today known as Alstom Power.

We are a team of former Advant engineers that specialize in the upgrading, service, support, of the OS500 HMIs, as well as a full line of parts for the controller sub systems. There is absolutely no need to change this system out when we can provide rock solid support for the next 10 years, as many plants are discovering. We fully upgrade one Advant HMI to hi performance unix machines, keeping all existing graphics, licenses, and software intact for under US$ 40,000 a node, often times less.

Your readers will find it most interesting to learn that power users have experienced having one UNIX based HMI station replaced with 800xa, only to pay over US$ 200,000.00 for each station upgraded. The problem is that all graphics from the old system have to be re written into visual basic or dot net to fit the new system, at roughly US$ 1500.00 a graphic.

This is a vastly complex system, with many raid servers, license keys and complex technology. It has a life expectancy of three years before step ups, roll ups, and other add ons will be required, driven in part by Microsoft. Make no mistake that this is a Microsoft based product, with all viewing done through their IE browser.

Today, the ADVANT DCS user has support for the next 10 years with most upgrades done as plug and play within hours. No licenses to break, no virus threats, not another upgrade - -ever!!!

So if we are talking cost savings in today's economy, then this is the place to be.

You may contact me off forum for further information at sales [at] workstationsexpress.com

Thanks.
Bob

 

I agree with Rob, ABB 800xA is really good and user friendly hardware, bcz i have been working on it from last 4 yrs and commissioned some CFBC/Bagasse fired Power plants.

Nitin Pulastya

 

For 250MW Power plant the best systems has to be bring on the table. One is ABB Symphony DCS system and Emerson Ovation System. The AC800M platform controller has the serious issue in long run and still under evolution. The Emerson Ovation has been proved in all super critical and sub critical power plants all over world. So go with Proved system of the principles.