Hi guys:

I need to install or connect a new solenoid valve to one of the cards on a Mark VI. I don't really know where to start. How can I assign a pair of points in the card to start making this modification? Or How do I identify what card should I use?

 

Oh my!

Siem,

Considering the questions you just asked, I will assume that you have no previous experience with the MarkVI control panel. If this is true, I would advice you to make no modification on your own, at least not until you had some training. Not because the addition of a solenoid valve on a relay output board is rocket science, but because there are implications, good practices and procedures you should be aware of whenever you make any modification on the MarkVI IO, most of them part of a basic training for MarkVI maintenance and too long to describe in a post here.

I am sorry for the quite dismissive reply, but my philosophy is that only trained and authorized personnel should make modifications on complex systems as a turbine control panel.

 

Thank you Mark6TA for your answer:

I have experience in Mark V and some experience in Mark VI. What I have never done before is what I am trying to do at this moment. but, If I follow some steps, I am sure I can do. I have the basic training. what I need now is it just a little help and someone who I can talk to. who can guide me to make the necessary right steps.
Looking for information about the way to make a modification to connect a new solenoid valve. I found a thread where "Mark VI", while speaking with "CSA", gives the steps to make the modification I want. I still have to assign the points where I am going to connect the solenoid valve and make the modification to the software in order to do the connection.

This was what Mark VI wrote.

1. Validate all
2. Build
3. Download application code
4. Save the .m6b file.

If you are making changes that introduce a new signal, event, alarm, or trip log signal then you should:

1. Validate all for the .m6b
2. Device->put into database full (Device menu "Put into database" Full)
3. Build
4. Download application code (Device menu "Download" Application Code)
5. Save the .m6b file
6. Open the .hmb file for the server you are at.
7. Validate
8. Put to database
9. Get from database
10. Build
11. Save the .hmb
12. Net stop tci
13. Open Cimplicity Workbench Project for Server you are working at
14. Perform configuration update of project
15. Net start tci or reboot the work station.

I refer to the steps from 1 to 4 as the "The first sequence", and the steps from 1 to 15, as "The second sequence"
In my case, I think that the whole sequence could be:

A. Execute the "The first sequence" just to make sure that everything is OK before starting

B. Go to the Toolbox and select a pair of spare points for a solenoid valve and assign this pair of spare points to the solenoid valve (I/O points for a solenoid valve). I think I can go to an existing configuration of another solenoid valve and make my own assignment, or configuration, according to this.

C. Go to the software and select a block with an output signal who is going to energize the solenoid (Maybe L14HS, I will see later) and connect this signal to the I/O points who will energize de solenoid)

D. Execute the "The second sequence"

This briefly describes the sequence that I pretend to execute. If you Mark6TA, Mark VI, CSA or someone else have any comment or hint to help me finish with this, I will appreciate... in the meantime I keep on looking into others threads

Best regards,
Siem

 

Hi guys,

Is there any comment or hint? Right now, I do not have an available Mark VI to do it, so when I have it (next week), I have to do everything quickly. That is why I want you guys to tell me if the procedure I pretend to do is correct or If I have to do something else (or less)

Best regards,
Siem

 

Hi guys,

Well, I started reading the GEH-6403F Control Solutions ToolBox for configuring a Mark VI turbine controller. Page 109 and 110, where I can declare or define the new signal I want to add

Best regards,
Siem

 

Hi guys,

I understand that it is not easy to configure a connection for a solenoid valve (or another signal) but always there is a "first time". I looked to a configuration of another solenoid valve and observed that there are four items for each one (please, correct me if this is not true). The first item is to declare or define the new signal. I could see the way to do this into the manual GEH_6403F (Module Pins and Edit Module Pin). The second item is related to the software we have to design in order to have the signal energized (the logic). The third item is related to Cimplicity... to create an exchange signal to be broadcasted for Cimplicity (please, correct me if I don't say the sentences such the way they should be); and the fourth item is referred to the way the solenoid valve is connected

Best regards,
Siem

 

Siem,

You have certainly researched this topic and have arrived at a very good understanding of the basics involved. Yes; one has to "declare" the signal name by creating a Pin and then assigning that pin to a physical output. And, then one needs to create the "logic" to energize/de-energize the Pin to pick-up and drop-out the physical output the pin is assigned to. And, one also needs to properly connect the solenoid wiring to the terminal board.

As for the whole CIMPLICITY thing, I would ask: Is it necessary to have the value of the Pin (the "1" or "0") shown on a CIMPLICITY display? Because, this is the part of the process than can really wreak havoc if not done correctly--and it can be extremely complicated and it's not properly documented for all of the various perversions of CIMPLICITY and TCI and Toolbox.

Is this "solenoid" a 125 VDC solenoid? Or a 120 VAC solenoid? (Is the turbine a gas or steam turbine?) Do you have an external source of voltage/current for the solenoid, or do you need the Mark VI to provide the voltage/current?

Presuming the solenoid is a 125 VDC solenoid drawing less than approximately 3.2 A DC and presuming the Mark VI is a gas turbine, it will likely have VCRC cards in the Mark VI processor racks. I'm also presuming a TMR control panel, and I'm presuming you will want a TMR output--which is another question.

The VCRC cards will normally drive TRLY cards, and each TRLY card has twelve (12) relay outputs, half of which <b>may</b> be configured as solenoid outputs, with a 125 VDC supply, and half of which can only be contact outputs ("switches", for an external source of voltage/current). You can look at the TRLY section of the VCRC card in the Mark VI System Guide, GEH-5421, Volume II, and look in the Toolbox for the Mark VI at your site and in the Mark VI control panel at the TRLY cards to determine if there is a "spare" (unused) 125 VDC solenoid output. The output will have four (4) terminals associated with it on the TRLY: one will be identified as NO (for normally open), one will be identified as NC (for normally closed), one will be identified as COM (for common), and the fourth will be identified as SOL (for "solenoid"). There will also likely be a couple of hardware jumpers which will need to be installed to do the last bit of configuration of the output as a solenoid output.

You need to use Toolbox to identify which TRLY has a spare solenoid output and which TRLY has 125 VDC available to it (there will likely be other solenoids connected to the TRLY, just one or more of the six solenoid-capable outputs will be unused, probably with the hardware jumpers uninstalled).

Presume you want the solenoid to be energized when the Pin driving it is a logic "1", you would connect one lead of the solenoid to the NO terminal, and the other to the SOL terminal. With the hardware jumpers installed, when the solenoid output relay is energized, this will send +65 VDC out the NO terminal, and -65 VDC will be continuously applied to the other side of the solenoid via the SOL terminal. When the Pin is a logic "0" the associated relay on the TRLY card will be de-energized, and the NO contact will open which will remove the +65 VDC from one side of the solenoid and de-energize the solenoid. (Again, -65 VDC will always be applied to one side of the solenoid via the SOL terminal.)

I say the load should be less than approximately 3.2 A DC, because I believe the standard fuse supplied on the TRLY cards is a 3.2 A "slow blow" fuse, meaning that it will withstand a slightly higher current flow for a short period of time (such as during energization when in-rush current can be high), but will open when the continuous current flow is more than 3.2 A. <b>BUT</b> that's from memory (I don't have a GEH-6421 to consult as I write this)--and it's your responsibility to check on the fuse rating and make sure the load of the solenoid is less than the fuse rating. I strongly suggest if the load is higher than the fuse rating, that you NOT install a fuse with a higher rating because that cause the traces on the TRLY card to burn out--sometimes with actual flames.!.!.! If the load is higher than the installed fuse current rating, you will need to use an interposing relay with the proper rating for the current draw. Which is outside the scope of this forum to help with.

Lastly, for a TMR output, you will need to make sure all of the VCRC cards are properly assigned the same Pin signal to the same output. You'll have to look at other TMR solenoid outputs and do the same thing.

Again, you are to be commended for studying and digging into the details as much as you have. MIKEVI, another trusted and experienced contributor here at control.com, may be able to provide some information about the whole CIMPLICITY thing--if that's required. But, you are going to have to tell him about all of the site configuration (LCIs; EX2000s; HMIs; Mark VIs; etc.) and the process can get VERY complicated very fast if there are multiple units and LCIs and HMIs. So, think long and hard about this one--do you really need to display the value of the Pin on a CIMPLICITY display?

And, if you have other questions unrelated to CIMPLICITY, you will need to provide more information, such as the type of solenoid (AC; DC; current rating; power source (external or Mark VI); etc.).

Please write back to let us know how you fare!

 

Dear Siem,

As MR. CSA has discussed it would be much easier to perform the task all within the MKVI and not deal with Cimplicity if you really do not need to display the status of the output on the HMI. Because of the many different ways that the HMI's can be configured, and different versions of Toolbox require different procedures in declaring signals in the EGD, the procedure is not the same at each site.

Just a small correction for the post from Mr. CSA. The manual you need to refer to for hardware is GEH-6421, the most important manual in my opinion for the MKVI. Depending on the version of GEH-6421 manual you have there will be from 1-3 different volumes. Also sometimes finding the TRLY board information you will have to look at the area of the manual for a VCRC card or a VCCC card.

 

Thanks a lot CSA/MIKEVI, for your support !!

I didn't give any detail before because nobody answered to me when I was looking for help. I think that the case is very simple. We are making a modification to add a solenoid valve to the atomizing air system in a Frame V dual fuel unit. It is a solenoid valve similar to 20AA or 20FL (125 Vdc) and it will be used to block the compressor air pressure discharge going to the Booster after the Booster had stopped when the diesel motor had stopped. The Mark VI is a SIMPLEX model. I found an spare point (Not used) into the first six output of the VCRC card (TRLY, Relay 01) to connect the new solenoid valve (Point 03 for NO Contact and Point 04 to energize the solenoid). I have not checked the fuse or the JP1 yet, but it is a pending issue and, according to what you say, the fuse rating should be ok because it is a 35 watt solenoid valve (125 Vdc) and, "YES", I want a "1" to energize the solenoid.

And talking about the software, I compared it in another unit where this modification was done some years ago and, apparently, what we need is to insert a block with an input signal (the command, please correct me if this is not the way to say it) and an output signal going to the solenoid that we need to energize. In this case I inserted the block 35: _BENG with the two signals previously mentioned. About the CIMPLITY, I inserted the signal just the way I saw it into the software in the second unit (With ToolBox). I don't really know if I have to do something else

Best regards,
Siem

 

Siem,

Unless you or someone feels it is necessary to display the value of the logic signal for the new solenoid output on a CIMPLICITY display, it's not required to do anything with EGD or CIMPLICITY. What would be important would be feedback signal from the valve to tell the operator it was closed when the solenoid was energized.

If you're only going to display the value of the logic signal--that's only providing a false sense of security. Because just because the solenoid is energized DOE NOT mean the valve is open. It might make the Operations Manager feel better to see the value of the logic signal on a CIMPLICITY display, but it does not mean the valve is closed when the logic signal is energized.

The TRLY you choose must have 125 VDC connected to it. Every TRLY has the capability to power solenoids on the first six outputs but it can only do so if the supplier connected 125 VDC to the card from the <PDM>. So, unless at least one of the other six outputs is also a solenoid output there is no guarantee that the TRLY you have chosen will have 125 VDC available for powering any of the first six outputs.

Had you provided more details in you first post, you probably would have gotten more information. Based on the (lack of) information you originally provided, most people didn't want to try to help someone learn all the details necessary--when we had no idea what was being attempted. We get a lot of requests for help that turn out to be not what was originally described, and incorrect terms and words are used. It takes a lot to teach someone this capability--and especially when they don't want to do any digging on their own. Sure, this seems simple after you've spent time researching the details, but you haven't actually done it yet. Memory locations in the Mark VI are very dynamic, and sometimes a seemingly simple change can result in a Major difference, and worse--it can totally screw up CIMPLICITY communications. <b>BE SURE YOU HAVE BACK-UPS OF EVERYTHING BEFORE YOU START!</b> And, I recommend making the changes to the back-up files first (after making back-ups of the back-ups--yes, I'm that paranoid about the EGD and CIMPLICITY!) and if that all works, then you can decide to make the same changes to the original files.

Best of luck--and let us know how it goes!

And, seriously--forget about adding this signal to the EGD, and updating the SDB and the CIMPLICITY Project. Without a valve position feedback signal, putting the value of the new logic signal on the display is just giving someone a false sense of security.