Deleting a non-functioning NT system

I have a rather interesting problem that I thought some of you might find humourous. Maybe you have some ideas on fixing it as well.

My problem is this. The dell Inspiron 7500 laptop I use for work originally came with Win NT 4.0 on it.

Of course, none of the software that I run will reliably work in NT (some won't run at all) so in desperation they installed Win98 in a dual boot
configuration on it. Much more stable then NT and I was able to do my work. However, it left me unable to boot WinNT. When I try I get the normal log in screen but it just locks up.

For reasons I do not understand, they partitioned my harddrive into 2 fat partitions and an NTFS partition, and made the NTFS partition the largest
chunk (probably since obviously no one would ever want to run anything other than windows NT).

Now I am running out of space for windows 98 stuff and need to load some more software but have run out of room.

Ideally, what I would like to do is just delete NT altogether since it is of no value at all to me, and somehow recover the space NT is using on my C drive and find some way to use the NTFS partition, maybe converting it to a fat 32 partition.

I get lots of strange looks when I ask them about this. Does anyone have any ideas other than just starting over altogether with a blank HDD and reloading win98? Maybe this is the best approach anyway since a good reformat and start over is not all that bad of a way to deal with windows every now and then anyway, but I am hoping to find a way of not having to reload all the
software I have installed.

Bob Peterson
 
W

Walters Curt L Contr AEDC/SVT

Bob,

In response to your problem regarding an laptop loaded with non-functional NT, functional 98, and lots of useless NTFS file space, I submit the
following:

You might try a product called Partition Magic by Power Quest (~ $65) which allows one to convert partitions "without loss of data" according to the
literature. It converts FAT-FAT32, but I am not sure about NTFS.

You probably can't access NT because in order for NT to be on a multiple boot system, NT and the other OS's have to be installed in a certain order.

Curt

 
Bob Peterson:
> Ideally, what I would like to do is just delete NT altogether since it is of no value at all to me, and somehow recover the space NT is using on my C drive and find some way to use the NTFS partition, maybe converting it to a fat 32 partition. <

Three possibilities spring to mind:

- fdisk should allow you to delete and create partitions, but not
re-size them. Comes with Win98.

- Partition Magic, which allows resizing as well as deleting and
creating. I've used it several times, on various computers, never
had a problem with it. Commercial program.

- GNUparted - same as PM. Never used it, but I've given its author
a lift in my car a couple of times... Free software.


Jiri
--
Jiri Baum <[email protected]> http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jirib
MAT LinuxPLC project --- http://mat.sf.net --- Machine Automation Tools
 
C
I had the reverse problem. My laptop had 95 and I wanted NT for SCADA and networking reasons. It was easy to format the harddisk and install NT, but I had trouble finding the required drivers for the touch pad and the onboard sound because the components in the laptop are specialized to make them small. I was able to find the drivers and make it all work, but I found NT did not have the power management tools that 95 had, the system overheated, and I burned out the mother board. Win98 should have the tools you need and I should think the drivers for it are more readily available than for NT. It may be as simple as asking the manufacturer to email them to you. However, I also found that the manufacturer of my laptop only warranteed the original operating system.

I recommend you call the manufacturer and ask about availability of the required drivers for the 98 or 2k on your laptop. If they are there, then I would wipe out the existing partitions, reformat it all fat32, and install 98 or 2k.

Good Luck!

Chip Hinde
Los Alamos National Laboratory
 
B

Brambley, Michael R

Bob,

I've been working with PartitionMagic over the last couple days and can verify Curt's suggestion. It does convert NTFS to FAT32 and FAT32 to FAT or NTFS. I don't know about removing NT though.

Good luck.

Mike
 
M

Michael R. Batchelor

Depends on how you boo t into W98. It sounds like the NT loader presents you with the choices and you choose W98. If so, you need to get rid of the NT loader.

To do that, while you're in W98 make a bootable dos disk and get fdisk on it. Once you have that disk you can run

a:> fdisk /mbr

and you'll overwrite the boot sector of the hard drive with the W98 boot loader. This will stop you from being able to choose the dead NT partition. But it won't get rid of the partition.

By far the best and easiest solution to get rid of the NT partition is to purchase Partition Magic. It will do wonderful things without you having to understand what's going on. You could convert the second of the FAT partitions to FAT32 and expand it to consume the entire remainder of the disk.

Alternately, depending on the version of W98 you have, the fdisk on the bootable floppy may be able to delete the NTFS partition and allow you to create a new partition on the blank space. (Or
not. The older versions cannot delete the NTFS.)
 
A
Boot from the 3 floppy disk NT installation disks and re-format the NTFS drive to FAT. At some point in the boot up it will ask if you want to format your partitions. Be careful to blow away only the NTFS.
 
P

Pierre R. Hinse CET

Ok here goes, (no blank looks from me)

Make yourself a bootable floppy, put the following on it: FDISK, FORMAT, EDIT, SYS, XCOPY
You will find these in C:\Windows\Command

Boot from your floppy, and run FDISK. Delete the strange partition in FDISK, and then create a Logical Drive in the Extended partition. Then you can format it from the C:\> prompt, or in windows.

OR you can buy NTFSforWin98 from Winternals, you will be able to read the files on the NTFS partition, but some programs do not like going through this driver.

Have Fun!

Pierre R. Hinse CET
Industrial Automation Specialist
Bestech.com
 
B
fidsk does not even see the windows NT partition. my first thought was to just reformat that partition as a FAT32 partition, but alas since win98 fidisk does not even see it, its not possible.

Bob Peterson
 
If you can get into NT in any way, its own fdisk should be able to delete the partition, and then you can create a FAT32 partition with the W98 fdisk (always use the fdisk from the correct OS to create a partition).

Or get a linux rescue disk and use the fdisk from that.


What about Partition Magic or GNUparted?


Jiri
--
Jiri Baum <[email protected]> http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jirib
MAT LinuxPLC project --- http://mat.sf.net --- Machine Automation Tools
tlhIngan Hol jatlhlaHchugh ghollI' Hov leng ngoDHommey'e' not yISuD
Never bet on Star Trek trivia if your opponent speaks Klingon. --Kung Foole
 
R

Richard Higginbotham

Get Partition Magic, it will let you resize or delete/change partitions without loosing data. Its worked well for me.

Richard Higginbotham
 
R

Ranjan Acharya

I would use PartitionMagic to work with the system and remove unwanted partitions. You would use FAT32 instead of FAT if you wanted now -- only do that once you are happy with the 98-only system.

It really depends on the exact make-up of the system, but you need to carefully remove Windows NT. Making a Windows 98 boot disk and putting
FDISK on it will help. You can then use FDISK /MBR to make a 98-style master boot record.

It really should not be a big deal removing NT. Just look out for corrupting the bootability of the disk. I have removed OSs before, and it
always works out in the end. DriveImage, the sister-product to PartitionMagic can help out here for the mistakes.

The first thing to do is a back-up. Then have fun .... however, noting the next paragraph, it might be a better idea to take this opportunity to clean up the system.

You could also consider re-formatting the entire thing so that you can refresh the system -- a good idea with DLL creep and so on in Windows (98 is awful for that kind of problem). Perhaps it is time to consider Windows 2000 or Windows 2000 and Windows 98 with a dual boot? They can both share FAT32 and FAT. I really cannot imagine a good reason to use Windows 98 unless the software explicitly requires it. Most of the industrial stuff we use works under 2000 just fine. 2000 is also relatively stable -- fraught with bugs and inconsistencies and full of holes, not as good as Linux but usable in the grand scheme of things.

Ranjan
 
C
Download a Linux boot&root disk. It cares not which type filesystem is in the partition. fdisk will let you delete the partition, define and reformat with your 98 utils. Free and fast and that's as much advice as I can give you because I abandoned MS way before 98. Be careful, Linux does exactly what you tell it to do.

Regards

cww
--
Free Tools!
Machine Automation Tools (LinuxPLC) Free, Truly Open & Publicly Owned
Industrial Automation Software For Linux. mat.sourceforge.net.
Day Job: Heartland Engineering, Automation & ATE for Automotive Rebuilders.
Consultancy: Wide Open Technologies: Moving Business & Automation to Linux.
 
R

Ralphsnyder, Grayg

Backup your system. Document special settings, etc. Make sure your disaster recovery plan is up to date. Swap the existing harddrive for a new
one. Load the system, software, etc, and configure it the way you want it to be. Try to start the system and run it. Benefits: you will find out if you can recover from a disaster; you will soon find out what settings that are important so now you can update your recovery plan; you can throw the original harddrive back in to find out what you don't know - or at least be able to run from it.
 
Bob, I can help with a clean install, I found something in an old NT resource kit called delpart, it will let you delete the NTFS partition. I found an old dell with a 13 gig HD but I could only recoginize 5 gig, as 8 gig was tied up and encrypted with NT. It let me delete the NTFS partition. I wanted a clean install, so that's all I tried, I deleted then formatted and installed Win ME. If you want the file, lemme know, it fits on a floppy, so I should be able to email it.

Thanks,
Bill



> I have a rather interesting problem that I thought some of you might find humourous. Maybe you have some ideas on fixing it as well.
>
> My problem is this. The dell Inspiron 7500 laptop I use for work originally came with Win NT 4.0 on it.
>
> Of course, none of the software that I run will reliably work in NT (some won't run at all) so in desperation they installed Win98 in a dual boot
> configuration on it. Much more stable then NT and I was able to do my work. However, it left me unable to boot WinNT. When I try I get the normal log in screen but it just locks up.
>
> For reasons I do not understand, they partitioned my harddrive into 2 fat partitions and an NTFS partition, and made the NTFS partition the largest
> chunk (probably since obviously no one would ever want to run anything other than windows NT).
>
> Now I am running out of space for windows 98 stuff and need to load some more software but have run out of room.
>
> Ideally, what I would like to do is just delete NT altogether since it is of no value at all to me, and somehow recover the space NT is using on my C drive and find some way to use the NTFS partition, maybe converting it to a fat 32 partition.
>
> I get lots of strange looks when I ask them about this. Does anyone have any ideas other than just starting over altogether with a blank HDD and reloading win98? Maybe this is the best approach anyway since a good reformat and start over is not all that bad of a way to deal with windows every now and then anyway, but I am hoping to find a way of not having to reload all the
> software I have installed.
>
> Bob Peterson
 
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