European Norms


Anthony Kerstens

I think advertising supplementing funding is great. Of course, now you have the potential for "conflict of interest" issues. It doesn't even have to be a real conflict. Just the appearance of impropriety is enough of a problem.

Perhaps this can be solved by contracting a third party to run the advertising part of it.

Anthony Kerstens P.Eng.
So, let me see. We could issue ISA Specification S20 with a sponsoring advertisement on the front and back covers from AutoDesk???

Or S88, we could ask Moore Products to sponsor???

Or ask Hoffer, Sponsler, Blancett, EG&G and FlowData et al to bid on the sponsorship of the Turbine meter standard?

I don't somehow think so.

Friends, this is the real world.

Knowledge is _not_ free. Information is _not_ free.

Nor should it be. Somebody had to pay to have that knowledge created. Somebody had to pay to have that Standard written. Somebody had to
administrate the work of the volunteer committees that wrote the standard. Somebody had to pay for the time of the volunteers who wrote the standard.

Contrary to what the hooligans who tore up my city last month said, property is NOT theft.

That being said, how do we fund the appropriate development of standards, worldwide?

For ISA the question has some serious immediacy. We're losing our shirts on standards, as I have said before.

ISA's primary reason for existence is to create standards for instrumentation and control. Providing benefits to its members is its
secondary reason for existence. The reason standards creating is primary is because of the fact that ISA exists for the betterment of humankind.

The Instrument Standards Foundation exists. ISA
set it up a decade ago to solicit funds to support standards activities.

If you want freely available standards, on the web or even in print for members, send your checks to ISA earmarked for the ISF. Do it today and do it often, and make the amounts big.

I guarantee that if we can raise a big enough endowment to fund standards activities, we will make standards available for free. We don't have to completely fund standards activity...just cover some of the costs. It is taking almost the entire annual dues payments of every ISA member worldwide to pay for standards activity right now. All we have to do is cover some of the shortfall.

So, everybody who has said they think standards ought to be freely available, put your money where your mouth is.

Walt Boyes

----------------Walt Boyes-------------------
VP-Elect, Publications Department
ISA is the international society for
measurement and control
Visit ISA ONline at
mailto: [email protected]

Matthew da Silva

This doesn't answer the question of how to distribute standards *for free*, but it would be much more convenient for me if I could pay a subscription fee to access a library of standards over the web (in HTML format). For a
monthly/annual fee, I could view and search whatever standards are available.

I like Mike Boudreaux' idea. It is a nice idea and could feasibly be implemented in the same way that companies now pay research companies for various information services. Here, many people in
different parts of a company have different needs at different times and since it's impossible to coordinate all requests, multiple passwords
are assigned on the back of a single subscription fee.

But, hey, doesn't anyone else have a feeling in the middle of their belly that paying for standards is a pork-barrel concept? I admit that I do. Shameful is perhaps too harsh a word ... Forced to eat the same amount as Internet startups -- who are showing the world that corporate success can be created without artificial support -- and forgoing the straps and bandages that are holding together these standards publishing bodies, they could start looking more like non-profits instead of semi-profits.

What about doing more with Internet advertising? I hate it too, but it pays for content making and management. Possessing a strong franchise, one would expect the ISA to demonstrate a more
enterprising attitude in the delivery of online content. After all, to whom does it belong? Who owns the copyrights?

Matthew da Silva
Yamatake Tokyo
I am curious exactly where the money is spent. I understand the printing costs, but I gotta believe the printing costs are not that high and by distributing them on the web that would eliminate printing costs.

I understood the time is donated by the members on the committee (actually the member's companies probably) so where are all the expenses?

Just curious.

Diana C. Bouchard

ISA incurs substantial costs for staff to support standards committee work: set up and be present at meetings, maintain documentation, maintain email contact lists etc. It is not uncommon for a standards committee to take several years,
numerous meetings, and several drafts to complete its work on one standard. I would be surprised if the situation were much different in other standards developing organizations. So this is one answer to the question, "where are all the expenses?"

Diana Bouchard

Diana C. Bouchard
Paprican, Process Control Group Chair, Books Advisory &
570 St Johns Boulevard Oversight Committee
Pointe Claire Quebec H9R 3J9 Canada
ISA Publications Department
Standards org's can make money my memship fees, compliancy tests, compliancy testing, training, guides, joint marketing exercises, selling example source code and a whole host of means.

I can accept that only paid up members see the draft specs (so they know what is coming) BUT, charging for the standard itself? No, this is wrong and self defeatist.

Now, who is going to tell me were I can get my FREE copy of the Profibus DP specs? :)

Martinez, Antonio-Fernandez

I totally agree with the idea of having public access to the Standards via the web. Companies and workers would want to improve their work, or products or reduce costs, implementing the procedures or measures based in the standards. If not through the web, how one single user can implement them or simply have a look to the standard as a very good reference? I cannot understand why this documents that are supposed to have been developed to improve the world can be within the walls of the standards organizations as the mummies are in the museums. Why? To be discovered in the 4th millennium by the future's archeologists? I totally support the
idea of move this things.

Antonio Martinez
Kraft Foods International
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Petr Baum
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: INFO: European Norms

>Charging for Standards is an artifact of history. Before the Web,
printed paper copies of standards were required, even if you just wanted to
skim it to get the flavor of it. Priniting and handling of paper copies
costs money "per copy". There is little or no ongoing cost for standards
off www.

Does anybody else on the list think standards should be freely
available via the Web?

Yes. Fees make implementing of stadards more difficult - that
defeats their purpose - and they do not cover costs anyway. Advertisements
on the site - what a great spot to offer equipment, which is complying to the
Standard - would probably provide better income than direct sale of

Anybody should be able to print hard copies on local printer if they
are needed. Including ads :)

Petr Baum <[email protected]>
I am sorry but the question was how to find free norms and not: What do you think is it good to pay for that?

We are living in the digital age, and the basics of the economy of the digital age is the copying of the informations for free. How to find the business model, that is not my problem.

The solution I see is to share that information via peer-to-peer systems.

Or the model should be:
norms for free, but for every certifications, a part of the sum should be paid to the organisation on a tax basis.

If an equity system is not established wellcome are the p2p.