Gas Turbine Control System - Frame 6 with Allen -Bradley's Panel View HMI


Thread Starter


we use GE Frame 6 Gas Turbine with Allen-Bradley's HMI (Panel View 1400e). someone please explain the difference between the Mark Control series and Allen -Bradley control panel. need someone with frame 6 with Allen-Bradley control panel experiences to email me on [email protected] for future assistance on Gas turbine frame6.

thanks guys
If you're having specific issues it would be best to list them to get help. This is an extremely generic question and we can't provide much help without more specific information.

In theory, the A-B should have been programmed to make the turbine and its auxiliaries operate exactly the same as the Speedtronic control system it replaced. Sometimes the implementation is a little rough, but that's the intent.

The hardware used to perform the control and protection will obviously be different, and if you're having problems with A-B hardware, or some intermediate component added to the control system to interface to an OEM component it would be best to tell us about it to see if we can help.

Have you tried contacting the control system supplier for help?

We don't even really know if you are having problems, though that's the usual reason for people writing to forums such as this.

And, anyone supplying an A-B for such application would likely have their own ideas about implementation and control and they wouldn't necessarily be similar to some other person's or company's ideas and implementations. All A-B applications are not identical.

Hopefully there is someone lurking here who will contact you off-line at the email address you provided. Good luck!

But, if you are just looking for GE-design Frame 6B heavy duty gas turbine knowledge and experience, you will need to be much more specific, and you will likely find some help here.

In any case, good luck!

First time I am hearing A-B with frame-6 gas turbine. Thanks for the information.

As CSA says, if have any issue on gas turbine with controls we could help you.

Take care

Yes, because the Speedtronic can make controlling a turbine, its driven device and auxiliaries pretty simple many people to think just about any PLC can be configured and programmed to control a GE-design heavy duty gas turbine.

Configuring a PLC-based control system to interface with the devices and field instruments used on a GE-design heavy duty gas turbine can be very complicated and costly. One of the biggest (so-called) selling features of using a PLC as a turbine control is that one can buy parts "off the shelf". Many PLCs require special, even proprietary in some cases, cards to interface with the speed pick-ups or the servo-valves or the flame detectors. So, these "integrators" (the people who design and package PLCs as turbine control systems) end up having a mish-mash of off-the-shelf PLC parts and proprietary cards and various and sundry interfaces (for the LVDTs, for example, or the flame detectors), needlessly complicating the system. Worse, the number of spare parts required actually increases in many cases, and the single-point failure rates also increase.

As complicated as Speedtronic control systems can seem, they are built to interface with the types of field devices and instruments used on GE-design heavy duty gas turbines (as well as other manufacturers, truth be told) without the need for interface modules or special cards.

One of the biggest complaints I hear from people who spend tens of thousands of dollars training their people to work on Speedtronic control systems is, "It fails so infrequently our technicians have forgotten what they learned!" That's very telling about the reliability of Speedtronic control systems.

Many problems wrongly attributed to Speedtronic control systems are actually failures of field devices or instruments connected to Speedtronic control panels, or the lack of proper maintenance or maintenance procedures of field devices and instruments connected to Speedtronic panels, including grounds and electrical noise. Quite often, the perception about how something should work is incorrect and so the Speedtronic gets wrongly blamed for not operating the turbine or its auxiliaries properly.

And, I'm willing to bet that one reason the original poster is seeking assistance here is that many times these control system integrators don't have the personnel to support the systems once they are installed. Another fallacy about using PLCs for turbine control is that you can find any PLC technician to help with problems. (There are lots of people with A-B experience around the world!)

It really requires someone familiar with turbine and auxiliary device operation to troubleshoot ANY turbine control system, since a control "system" is not just the "brains" it's all of the field devices and instruments together. And, if the "brains" isn't designed to work with the field devices and instruments, and the people programming the "brains" don't have the experience and knowledge of the turbine and auxiliaries and field devices and instruments and turbine control philosophies then it can get very ugly very quickly.

The initial cost of a control system is not the total cost of a control system. While these PLC-based control systems may seem a good deal up front, as has been said many times on not just with respect to turbine controls--when you're buying a control system it's not the brand but the provider that determines the total cost over the expected life of the control system.

In other words, you might buy a control system with hardware manufactured by one of the top-rated and most widely-used PLC manufacturers in the world (for any application!), but the company you are buying it from is more important than the hardware you are buying. The company you are buying it from (commonly called a control system integrator) is the one that is going to package the hardware, program the hardware, install the hardware, and provide after-market support for the hardware (at least during the warranty period). Getting these companies to support the control system they designed can be very difficult, and finding someone who understands the PLC and turbine and auxiliary operation and can understand the configuration and programming can be very difficult.

Not impossible, but difficult. Sometimes it's necessary to pay the field support person to learn the system in order to be able to troubleshoot and solve the problems being experienced.

It will be very interesting to hear from the original poster about the issues he is experiencing.
GE Package Power (Aeroderivs) mostly uses Woodward Micronet. GE Energy Speedtronic works so "great" on heavy duty stuff mostly because of convention and tradition.

I agree, Speedtronic control system is designed for running GE "heavy duty" gas turbines. But if you talk to people who work on Speedtronic AND other control systems, they will usually agree that GE's premier system (which GE has shoe-horned into a DCS system) is quite clunky and maybe even overly complex.

Speedtronic implementation on steam turbines, on the few I worked on, seemed to be needlessly overly complicated. But I am only one opinion.

However, the systems seem to be quite robust...many owners are lucky they are because if something failed, it's often so complex that it's difficult to diagnose for people that don't work on it everyday.
I share your pain. Nice to hear some one else with the same frustrations. Convention and tradition may be good so people don't have to re-learn but keeps stuck in the seventies. The heavy duty world are reluctant to change. Ladder logic tradition in the speedtronics keeps people guessing whats going to happen next. I think there is very few people even within GE who have a grasp of the entire software whilst the software gets more bloated over the years as extra functionality is added.

The Micronet SFC step is so much more informative. Hardware wise i prefer the speedtronics but i'd rather work on a mirconet any day. Far superior conditional alarming and and first out trip indication. I don't know why the speedtronics still can't implement this function in 2012.

Speedtronic is well and good if thats all you work on but most techs don't have that luxury. In my place of work we have Netcon/Micronet LM6000s. MK5/MK6E of Frame 9 and Frame 6, and Woodward Atlas on Francis hydros.
Dear ControlsGuy25
Thank you very much for your kind response and help, forgive me for my weak explanation. I am familiar with Allen Bradley software but I ask any one in this forum if he has a project written in Allen Bradley RSLogix 5000 (written to control on gas turbine) to upload it.
Thank you again
Dear ControlsGuy25
Thank you very much for your kind response and help, forgive me for my weak explanation. I am familiar with Allen Bradley software but I ask any one in this forum if he has a project written in Allen Bradley RSLogix 5000 (written to control on gas turbine) to upload it.
Thank you again
Dear Omarzedan,

I am glad to hear feedback from you!

At this time ,I do not have a GT project RS logix5000 software.
Hope that you can find somebody, on this forum to share it with you.