GE MARK 6E I/O PACK RELAY CONTACT ISSUES

Hi ALL
We have a mark 6e control system. we are using in TMR . with UCSA controller. there was no problem with the system for 2 years. now I am facing a problem with some I/O packs. (PDIOH1A, PDOA1A, PPROH1A). if I select PDIOH1a with simplex board TDBSH6A its output relay contact will not toggle. instead of PDIOH1A if I use PDIOH1B Relay contact will toggle. And also if I use TDBTH2 TMR board with PDIOH1A, only S and T I/o pack relay will toggle and R i/o pack Realy contact will not toggle. and there is no issue if I use PDIOH1B instead of PDIOH1A in TMR. like this same problem with PDOAH1 in SRLYH1 and TRLYH1. there are no alarms in any I/O pack.
also, PPROH1 is not working (COMMUNICATION IS OK, RUN, ESTP, OSPD, WDOG, SYNC, OPT NOT OK) with SPROH1 But in the same SPROH1A bord PPROS1A is working fine.
I swiped the controller in R with S and T. Also changed the controller. try with spare i/o pack. also taken old back up .tws file but all result is the same.
what will be the problem ???
 
anees,

A UCSA is an older Mark VIe controller, so I presume the Mark VIe TMR system at your site is also several years (maybe more) old.

Further, if this Mark VIe is being used to actually control a turbine, can the turbine be started and operated given the issues you are describing?

Also, it is presumed you are referring to discrete relay OUTPUTs--the "ice cube" electro-mechanical relays mounted on the I/O terminal boards. And, the issue with the PPRO/SPRO is not fully understood, either; can you be more specific? (And, older Mark VIe control systems used three individual SPRO terminal boards, each one with a PPRO I/O Pack mounted on it. Is this what your Mark VIe turbine control system uses?)

Why are you changing I/O terminal board types? When originally configured, the specific (type of) I/O terminal board is provided in the ToolboxST file. The type of I/O terminal board a particular I/O Pack is mounted on should exactly correspond to the I/O Terminal board type specified in ToolboxST for an I/O Pack. If you look in GEH-6721, Vol. II, you will see that there are often several different types of I/O terminal boards--and the one which is chosen and used for a particular application and I/O Pack will have capabilities and functions which match the requirements of the application. I believe that when a particular I/O terminal board type is specified in ToolboxST (and downloaded to the I/O Pack) the I/O Pack then looks for the capabilities and functions of that I/O terminal board and accesses them and uses them (such as fuse monitoring, or voltage monitoring, or other such functions as the case may be).

I'm going to guess this panel is being used for training purposes, and that someone is "playing around" with various functions and configurations and doesn't really understand or know what it is that is being done or how the I/O Packs use the downloaded I/O board types. What's being described would require lots of building and downloading and re-boots and wouldn't necessarily be done on a running turbine producing revenue. That's just a SWAG (Scientific Wild-Arsed Guess)--but I venture a pretty good one.

What happens when you actually look at the type of I/O terminal board which the I/O Pack is mounted on, put that type in ToolboxST and then download the actual (correct) I/O terminal board type to the I/O Pack and re-boot the I/O pack? Can you then force and toggle discrete relay outputs as expected?

Again, unless you are actually changing the physical I/O terminal board that an I/O Pack is mounted on you should NOT need to change the type of I/O terminal board specified for that I/O Pack in Toolbox. Different types of I/O terminal boards have different functions--and those functions can be looked up and understood in the Mark VIe System Guide, GEH-6721, Vol. II.

Hope this helps!
 
thank you, CSA for the reply.
our panel is not connected to any turbine application. as you guess it's using for testing and training purposes.
the problem with SPRO And PPRO is PPROH1A will not woking fine in SPRO but in the same SPRO PPROS1is working fine.
there is no change made in the toolbox for the terminal board. no issue with download also.
and
this problem is noticed when I change PDIOH1B to PDIOA. in TDBTH2A board if I use three PDIOH1A only S and T i/o pack relay output will get toggle. R is not responding. I swiped the i/o pack the same and there is no problem with i/o pack . and there is no alarm in R I/O PACK. instead of PDIOA if I use PDIOH1B all the R< S<T working fine.
this same problem is with PDOAH1A also showing. in SRLYH1A bord connect to R network is not working (all communication is ok but a problem with relay output not toggling ). but the same will work in TRLYH1 S and T network.
also on SPROH1A bord PPROH1A not woking But PPROS1A is working fine
 
anees,

I'm sure you have the Mark VIe System Guide manuals (Vol. I, -II, and sometimes -III). They have compatibility charts for all of the I/O Packs and I/O terminal boards and such.

There have been MANY revisions to the manuals over the years, and so you need to try to use an appropriate revision for the equipment you are "testing" before reselling (and there's simply no way to know what is an appropriate version for a mish-mash of hardware and software as you are describing). This is a BIG problem with grey market Mark* turbine control cards and I/O Packs--just powering them up and getting green LEDs doesn't mean the part is good and serviceable. Truly testing involves much more than just powering-up and getting green LEDs and energizing and de-energizing electro-mechanical relays. MUCH MORE. Again, just because a PDOA or a PDIA can be plugged into a 37-pin D-sub connector on a SRLY or a TRLY or a TDBT does not mean it is designed to be used on that particular card or that the card can be used with that particular I/O Pack. (Or a PPRO into an SPRO or TPRO. And so on, and so on.)

You need to read and understand and use the System Guide(s) to learn and know what works with what and what can (or can't) be used with what. It's as simple as that. (And, remember, GE manuals are not always as good as they should be. Mark VIe manuals, particularly with regard to hardware, seem to be pretty good--though they leave a lot to be desired by the average technician trying to troubleshoot and understand turbine control and operation. But, for plain hardware (I/O Packs and I/O terminal boards), the System Guides are pretty good--not perfect, but pretty darned good.

Lastly, not every version of ToolboxST was designed or has the capability to work with every version of I/O Pack and I/O terminal board, either. That could be a small--or large--part of your problem(s).

And, if you're NOT changing I/O terminal board types and downloading then you are wasting your time trying to "test" these parts before re-selling them.

And, pay attention to Diagnostic Alarms. Because they are excellent indicators of hardware (I/O Pack and I/O terminal board) problems.

Hope this helps! RTFM, kind sir. (Read The ... F ... F ... Fine ... Manual).
 
Hi CSA ...thanks for the reply...
I do change the configuration in the toolbox . not swap the PDIOH1A with PDIOH1B, PDIOH1B only work properly. relay. toggle issue. after using PDIOH1B, PDIOH1A is not working properly. like the same Issue in PDOA, and PPRO >
Only higher revision i/o pack relay will work. and we do necessary change in the toolbox if I change i/o pack . and there is no issue in S and T channels. this problem is only on the R channel. any version of i/o pack will work properly in S and T, but I R only higher revisions working properly. like PDIOH1B, PPROS1B, PDOAH1B. for example
I/O packTerminal board usingTMR / SimplexRemark
PDIOH1ATDBSH6ASIMPLEXRELAY CONTACT WILL NOT TOGGLE
PDIOH1BTDBSH6ASIMPLEXRELAY CONTACT WORK.
PDIOH1A >R
PDIOH1A >S
PDIOH1A >T
TDBTH2ATMRONLY S AND T I/O PACK RELAY CONTACT TOGGLE AND R WILL NOT
PDIOH1B >R
PDIOH1B >S
PDIOH1B >T
TDBTH2ATMRALL 3 MODULE RELAY AND CONTACT TOGGLE AND NO ISSUE
PPROH1ASPROH1ASIMPLEXONLY PWR, ATTN AND E NET LED GLOW. NO RUN, ESTP, OSPD, WDOG, SYNC, OPT LED GOLW
LIKE THIS SAME ISSUE FOR PDOA ALSO .....
HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT EXACT PROBLEM I AM FACING.
 
anees,

I know most people dislike (loathe) Diagnostic Alarms, but they can be and are helpful and important when troubleshooting.

It is impossible for me to troubleshoot this via this forum. I would need to be on site and watching each and every step and the results of each and every step, with access to ToolboxST and the ability to see the LEDs on the I/O Pack(s) to be able to understand precisely what is and isn't happening.

Full stop. Period.

What you are doing is so far outside the mainstream of the normal usage of a Mark* turbine control system it's just not possible to be able to troubleshoot based on the information provided (even with a nice table) that it's impossible to know what all is (and isn't) being done.

I'm sorry; that's just how it is.
 
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