I am aware of Rockwell Software's RSView32 and RSWebServer and Intellution's InfoAgent products. They work fine, but don't exactly meet my needs. I would like to find an HMI that will allow internet browser access to the actual operation screens. Windows Terminal Services seems like a good option, but does it require each client to be setup? Other offerings require server and client software, which may or may not be setup through Interent Explorer. Thanks for the help and feel free to email me.

 

InTouch has several options for web access and WinCC has web navigator and Dat@monitor

Donald P

 

Take a look at visual.

Visual uses a Java applet, which is displayed in a web browser. This sounds like exactly what you want. http://visual.sf.net

You might also have a look at PV Browser, but that requires its own special browser (it can't be displayed in a generic web browser). Still, there are no per-seat licenses on the client, and it's available for both Windows and Linux, so it's not too bad. http://pvbrowser.org

Jiri
--
Jiri Baum <[email protected]> http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jirib
MAT LinuxPLC project --- http://mat.sf.net --- Machine Automation Tools

 

Check http://www.nematron.com

The package is OPENVIEW, I hope this helps.

Jari
[email protected]

 

You might take a look at http://www.easyhmi.com.

 

If you are looking for a SCADA package with operator screens with the option of full control through a browser or with the native windowing, take a look at Vsystem where there is a version of Vdraw available with this capability. Same screen either way. This is a new feature.

http://www.vista-control.com

Peter Clout
Vista Control Systems, Inc.
176 Central Park Square
Los Alamos, NM 87544-4031
(505) 662-2484
FAX (505) 662-3956
Cell (505) 450-7810
[email protected]
http://www.vista-control.com

 

Take a look at the Hyper SCADA Server at http://www.opencontrolsolutions.com (under the products tab).

 

Check also PcVue package at http://www.arcinfo.com. There is an option which is called WebVue that allow you to display mimics through a web browser. Web users have to enter login and password to access to their set of mimics as standard user does.

 

Check out Iconics GENESIS 32 and WEBHMI solution. It does exactly what you need w/o any Terminal Services or extra programs installed on the client side. It also takes care of OPC Server Networking (no DCOM headaches) and security as well. http://www.webhmi.com and http://www.iconics.com.

Hope this helps.

Joe

 

Hello Peter,

You mentioned you wanted to access the operator screens, for control or read-only?? Terminal Server is an option for iFIX etc. Also look at Cimplicity HMI WebView!!

Regards.

 

Cimplicity PE HMI system of GE Fanuc has the option WebView to suit your requirements...

 

Check out ICONICS WebHMI email me for more information.

 

Terminal Services solutions are ok but they have limits such as

- Windows Server Client Access License
- Powerful server side PC to handle sessions
- Poor performance with graphic intesive applications
- Scaling issues with live data and many users

When looking at a Web-based HMI solution you should look for the following things.

- Zero based install on client
- Two way interaction
- Support for Netscape and Internet Explorer
- Handle Trends, Alarms, Reports, and Graphics on a single page
- Cost effective license

You may want to check out http://www.webhmi.com

 

Siemens will release this summer a new package they call WinCC Flexible 2004. It is a scalable HMI package that can be used to configure their low end text panels to a PC based HMI. For now it cannot be used to configure the high end SCADA systems like WinCC can do today. It is essentially the replacement for ProTool with allot more features. One of the new features that has been incorporated is what they call Smart Access/ Smart Service. Smart Access will enable panels like the TP/OP 270 MP270/370 and PC to act as Servers or clients to other panels or PCs. Smart Service will allow web browsing via IE or Netscape remotely. Up to three concurrent connections can be established for the panels and 5 for the PC based HMI.

Check out this link for more details.

http://www.ad.siemens.de/hmi/html_76/microsites/wincc-flexible.htm

 

automationX uses thin-client for operator/engineering interface. So with a browser plug-in (few seconds of download) the entire client system is avaiable in a web-browser. We can also use PHP to make the real-time
database of the aXserver available to web browsers.

With the thin client technology aXservers are managed over corporate WANs. For example we support and maintain a Petroleum products terminal for Petro Canada that is run on aXServers 5 hours away from the main terminal, which
will have two large aXServer systems by the end of the year. We typically visit the Kamloops terminal once a year for a server upgrades or physical maintenance.

Regards,

Paul Jager
President,
www.automationX.ca

 

I would be interested to hear a bit of clarification of the "anti-TS" issues raised here as I think some of them are inappropriate to SCADA or simply untrue, but I don't want to pick a fight on what may be issues of terminology, lets hear it from Tim.

On the second table of considerations of what to look for I largely agree and would refer you to WinCC version 6 with Dat@monitor or WebClient as a good example of fitting this particular bill, I am just not quite sure that Netscape is supported.

Regards
Donald P

 

On April 29, 2004, Tim Donaldson wrote:
> Terminal Services solutions are ok but they have limits such as
> - Windows Server Client Access License <

But if you use a web MMI, would you not end up paying some sort of CAL fees anyway? I would find it surprising that Microsoft left such a big loop hole in their fee structure. They usually seem to be pretty good at collecting a slice of money off of every PC you network to a Windows server on an internal network.

> - Powerful server side PC to handle sessions
> - Poor performance with graphic intesive applications <

I am under the impression that large graphical terminal server applications typically need lots of memory, as in 100 MB or more per session. You would need a decent server, but you would only need one or two of them. Servers with dual processors are not unreasonably expensive anymore. The graphics performance would likely be limited by network bandwidth, so that would be something that would have to be looked at carefully.

> - Scaling issues with live data and many users

What do you mean by "many users" when it comes to MMI/SCADA applications? The terminal server installations that I have read about involved Linux systems, with 20 to 30 users. They were limited by server memory (32 bit addressing) when using large graphical applications. If they had used 64 bit hardware and software (e.g. AMD Opteron and 64 bit Linux builds), they could have supported a lot more users even on inexpensive servers. I'm not sure how this extrapolates to Windows TS, but the basic technological problems should be similar (although you would be limited to 32 bits with Windows). I don't
build SCADA systems, but I would have thought that a couple of dozen terminals is more than most typical systems need.

> When looking at a Web-based HMI solution you should look for the
> following things.
> - Zero based install on client
<clip>

I had a look at the example you suggested (webhmi), and it wants to install an ActiveX plug-in. I'm not sure if this really counts as "zero install". The ActiveX plug-in would (hopefully) get automatically downloaded, but you would
still end up debugging why the ActiveX control works on one PC, but not on another.

I also had a look at the Javascript code on their web page that handles downloading and installing the ActiveX control, and it has the following platform detection error message: "This application only runs on Windows NT/95/98/2000". They seem to have left Windows XP off the list of compatible versions for some reason.

The support of older Windows systems seems fairly complete, but it still only works with Windows. This seems to negate some of the advantages of using a browser. As far as ActiveX itself is concerned, I am under the impression that this is another Microsoft technology that is nearing its end of life and I wouldn't want to base any long term plans on it being supported in the future.

One of the problems with browser based MMI systems has been that basic HTML pages are not intended as "live" displays. The web MMI systems that I have investigated seem to get around this by using Java aplets or ActiveX controls to fetch live data to animate graphics.

I have been wondering if a better approach to this problem would be something using Mozilla XUL as an application platform. This would combine the advantages of a web application with those of a non-web app running locally.

--

************************
Michael Griffin
London, Ont. Canada
************************

 

The quality of graphics is degraded when using terminal services for HMI applications. If you have large displays with a lot on animation, there is no question that the quality and refresh rate of the display will be degraded.

For some SCADA applications that are not graphic-intensive this may not be as much of an issue though.

>From a cost standpoint though, terminal service client access licenses and the extra hardware needed to support a terminal service solution (not to mention the cost of the HMI/SCADA software) is much more expenseive then a Web-based "smart-client" solution such as WebHMI.

Although, that's just my two cents

-Chris M

 

Other offerings require server and client software, which may or may not be setup through Interent Explorer. Thanks for the help and feel free to email me.
You my try Web HMI software developed by company I work in:
http://www.pomiary.com.pl/en/visualization/index.htm

If you have any questions. please contact me:
[email protected]

 

Is there a webserver from intellution (GE fanuc) for use with the older Fix32 v.7.0 ?
I'm aware that iWebserver 2.0 (1999) from intellution is for iFix use only. Or can iWebserver 2.0 also be used with Fix32 v.7.0 ?

thx in advance,

[email protected]