Mark V alarm


Thread Starter


What are the steps of configuring alarm in Mark V?

I can't find any document on this topic. So, Mark V specialist guys can u help me in this regard?
It would help if you provided a little more information about the alarm you are trying to add and what is going to be "driving" the alarm. In other words, you will need a rung to energize a coil in the CSP to cause the alarm to be annunciated.

And, if this unit uses GE Mark V HMIs with CIMPLICITY, then the process is more complicated (than it would be if the site uses <I> operator interfaces). And, because there is variability in the different procedures depending on the version of CIMPLICITY writing a procedure can be very difficult.

If you will tell us more about the alarm you want to add (what will it be monitoring or indicating), and something about the type of operator interface in use at the site, and if the operator interfaces are multi-unit operator interfaces, then we might could gin something up for you. But, I caution that modifying CIMPLICITY projects is not without potential pitfalls, so if you're using GE Mark V HMIs with CIMPLICITY then we might not be able to give you exact detailed step-by-step instructions (which we probably can't do very well in this format anyway).

In a nutshell, you will need to find a spare alarm logic signal for the coil and rename it. You will also need to find/edit/add the alarm text you want to be displayed when the condition is detected and annunciated. You will then need to compile these changes into the "Global Data Dictionary".

Then, you will need to write a rung in one of the CSP segments to energize a coil with then name you defined that, when energized, will annunciate an alarm. You will then need to compile the CSP for downloading to the Mark V.

You will then need to download the new information to the Mark V processor(s) (depending on whether you added the alarm to <Q> or <C>) and reboot the processors to make the sequencing change be effective.

You will then need to "reboot" the operator interface to get the new information (signal name and alarm text) loaded into RAM. If the operator interface is an <I>, just stop and restart the <I>. (NICE and SIMPLE!)

If the operator interface is a GE Mark V HMI with CIMPLICITY, then you might need to get the new information into the CIMPLICITY project. And that's where the process can get a little tangled up. Sometimes, because the GE Mark V Alarm Window is a special AMV object, one doesn't need to do anything but stop CIMPLICITY and TCI, and then restart TCI first, wait a few minutes, and then restart CIMPLICITY. (A restart of the HMI will do virtually the same thing.) Sometimes, Signal Manager needs to be run to get the alarm text information into the project.

After that, you will need to test your alarm (hopefully you are doing all of this with the unit off-line!) to see if it works.

If you're going to be adding some kind of physical input (pressure switch, limit switch, temperature switch, transmitter) then the procedure is MUCH longer and more involved. And, there is some information in the Mark V Application Manual, GEH-6195, about how to do that portion of the task, but you'll still need to do most of the above, also.

The biggest thing if you're going to tackle this is to make back-ups of the current, known, good configuration so that is something goes amiss you can restore the operator interface and Mark V to a known, good point!

It's not easy or simple, and it's very hard to write a step-by-step procedure that is perfect for every one and every site. This should get you started, and if you want more, then you need to provide more information.
Thank u very much for ur kind response.

In our plant we are using Mark V local <I> in turbine control compartment (T.C.C) and in Central control room we have Remote <I> with multiple gas turbine units.

All gas turbines are coupled with 35 MW Alstom Generator and all r connected with grid. Local Annunciator (Red Lion, CL 20) for Electrical fault annunciation is out of order now that's why we can't see many important for electrical system.

Hardware connection from auxiliary contact was already done during commissioning period, suppose:

C_CD_CI20 L76_T CIM ; CD- DTBA -039 Excitation overcurrent - 2nd Step

During commissioning period there was a plan to configure those alarm for DCS but not done later on because after installation of Red Lion (Local Annunciator).

Is it possible to configure such important alarms for Mark V HMI.

I need ur suggestion.
Yes, it is possible to configure additional alarms in most Mark V panels, presuming there are spare alarm logic points available. There are 512 alarm logic points in <Q>, and 64 in <C>. Many of them are used in a CSP, and some should be spare but that isn't always the case, so check first. Although the input is connected to <CD> and is in <C>'s Control Signal Database, it's recommended to add the alarm to <Q>s Control Signal Database (<Q> can use <C>'s inputs and outputs!).

<b>!!!!FIRST: MAKE BACK-UPS OF THE FILES IN THE UNIT-SPECIFIC DIRECTORY!!!!</b> If you're not comfortable making these changes, or recovering if there is a problem, DON'T ATTEMPT IT and get someone competent to do so. READ AND UNDERSTAND the steps below, ask any questions if you don't understand BEFORE beginning.

Also, it's important to note that if Control Constants have been modified in the Mark V RAM and not been manually "copied" in the Control Constant source file on the <I> then the changes will be lost! The steps below presume all the files on the <I> being used to make the modification and download to the Mark V being modified match the files currently running in the Mark V.

You will need to look in F:\UNIT1\ALLOCSSP.ASG for a spare alarm logic point. A spare alarm logic point would look like this:
Q_ALM_SP_431 Q_ALM_SP_431 LOG ;
You would modify the line as follows:
Exit the file, saving the changes.

At this point, you need to get the newly renamed alarm logic point into the 'Global Data Dictionary' (UNITDATA.DAT). You can run the Total Job Compiler (I don't recommend this) or you can execute the following command from the command prompt of the unit-specific directory:
(Be sure to type the entire command exactly as above!) If you encounter any errors, stop immediately, note the error message, and post it back to this thread.

Next, perform a validity-check of the newly created file (as well as an alphanumeric sort) with the following command:
(Be sure to type the entire command exactly as above!) If you encounter any errors, stop immediately, note the error message, and post it back to this thread.

Next, pick a CSP Segment source file (usually, the segment SEQ_AUX.SRC is a good choice) to make the new rung.

Open the CSP (Master Sequence) Editor and open the selected CSP Segment Source file (in this example, SEQ_AUX; note that the Editor doesn't need the filename extension, .SRC).

Scroll to the end of the segment and insert a rung (if you're not comfortable with this, make sure you've read the section in the Mark V Application Manual, GEH-6195, Chapter 5, for instructions.

You will be creating a simple rung with one normally-open contact driving a single coil as follows.

[<b>NOTE:</b> The rung below presumes that L76_T goes to a logic "1" when the second step Excitation Overcurrent level is exceeded.]
L76_T L76_T_ALM
-----| |---------------------------------( )
Save the changes and exit the CSP (Master Sequence) Editor.

If you encounter any errors, stop immediately, note the error message, and post it back to this thread.

Now you need to edit the Process Alarm text message file, F:\UNIT1\ALARM.DAT, to add the alarm text (No; the ALMTXT after the semicolon in ALLOCSSP.ASG is NOT recognized by the compilers, it's just there to be "nice" to the next person reading the file):
NOTE: You need to use the same Process Alarm Drop number (n this example, 431) as was modified in ALLOCSSP.ASG.

Exit the file, saving the changes.

Now, run the Total Job Compiler (MK5MAKE.BAT), and when prompted, answer Y(es) to compiling the CSP. Make sure to open MK5MAKE.LOG and check for any errors. If you encounter any errors, stop immediately, note the errors, and post them back to this thread.

At this point, you now need to download the changes to the Mark V. It is recommended the turbine be shut down and at zero speed for this next portion. Use the EEPROM Downloader to download the CSP segment to the control processors, <R>, <S>, and <T>. (Note: This means three separate downloads, one to <R>, one to <S>, and one to <T>.) If you encounter any errors, stop immediately, note the error message, and post it back to this thread.

When you're finished, re-boot each control processor <b>ONE AT A TIME</b> by switching off the power to the processor in the <PD> for about 15-30 seconds, then switching it back back on. Wait about 2 minutes after the LCC/SLCC display indicates I/O Status A7 before switching the power off to the next processor.

When all the control processors have been rebooted
and returned to I/O Status A7, you will next need to reboot the <I> to get the new Global Data Dictionary and Process Alarm text message file loaded into the <I>s RAM.

Now, test the alarm rung you have created by simulating a change of state of L76_T. NOTE: The Alarm Text will only appear on the <I> that was used to make the changes, download, and was rebooted! [For now!]

If the test is successful, you need to copy the files that were modified to removable media (usually a floppy disk) to transfer them to any other <I>s on site that are used to monitor/operate the Mark V the alarm was added to. The files which were modified were:
Put these files in the appropriate unit-specific directory on other <I>s used to communicate with the Mark V the alarm was added to, then run the Total Job Compiler on that <I>, and then re-boot that <I> for the changes to get loaded into the <I>'s RAM. I

If you encounter any error messages, stop immediately, note the error messages, post them back to this thread.

It's not necessary to download anything to the Mark V from any other <I> after the original download was made and proven to be working correctly.

It's probably a good idea to test the new rung again once all the <I>s have been updated to make sure the alarm text is properly displayed on all the <I>s communicating with that Mark V.

Again, if you're not comfortable with any of the above, get a competent individual to site to perform the changes. If you're going to be performing the changes yourself, be sure to make back-ups of the unit-specific files before beginning so that you can return to a known good configuration if things don't go correctly. If you're not confident with making back-ups and restoring from back-ups, get a competent individual to site to make the changes.

While the change is a fairly simple one and shouldn't require the unit to be shut down to download and reboot, it's always advisable to shut the unit down when rebooting to avoid the possibility of tripping the unit while rebooting.

This isn't a complicated modification, but if one has never done it before and/or is not confident editing files and running commands from the command line, it can be daunting and confusing. Make sure you understand every step before beginning this procedure.
Thank u very much. The information that u’ve given is very nice. I need few more information to be sure before doing any change in Mark V.

1. After modifying the file (ALLOCSSP.ASG) the following command


The above command will create UNITDATA.DAT file newly by program DDLOCATE after the change of ALLOCSSP.ASG file? Again what will happen for IO.ASG, FACTORY.ASG & SITE.ASG with this command? Those files will be modified also?

2. I don’t understand how I’ll write this command? May I write in the following way?


I don’t know how I’ll open CSP (Master Sequence) editor (Control Sequence Editor Window Structure Figure 5-2 in GEH-6195D). If I select SEQ_AUX.SRC and press ‘E’ then editor window should open but it doesn’t show the Figure 5-2 in GEH-6195D.

3. Total Job Compiler (MK5MAKE.BAT), I can’t find this batch file in F:\UNIT1 directory. Is it a DOS command by writing the command in this way F:\UNIT1>MK5MAKE.BAT?
I'm going on record as saying I'm not comfortable with this because you don't seem comfortable working from the command line, but we're this far down the path so we might as go all the way. (I know I'm going to live to regret this. But, I won't be giving any information like this out in the future for several reasons, not the least of which is the potential for problems it can create. So, make this one good; it's my last!)

1. DDLOCATE doesn't modify the four files passed to it on the command line; it just uses the information from the files to create a new, unsorted UNITDATA.DAT file.

2. Precisely.

2.1 The easiest way I know of to open the "Master Sequence Editor" is to do so from the command line of the F:\UNIT1 directory with this command:


3. It's a batch file, and like all "executables" on Mark V operator interfaces for configuring the Mark V it's in the G:\EXEC directory. (You can search for any file from the root directory of C: drive with the DIR command.)

And yes, all you have to do is type the command at the command prompt as you have written it.

Write and let us know how it progresses (unless it doesn't work, and then, you're still on your own.)

And that's it. You're on your own from here!
Dear CSA,

It really works fine! Thank u very much.

I have done upto compiling of CSP. There is no error message or any trouble. But I haven't downloaded yet. Cuz I need to be confirm about the following things:

1. After compiling (MK5MAKE), I can't see the new added rung in csp.txt. But when I open SEQ_AUX (not edit form), I can see the new added signal (L76_T_ALM). Why I can't see the new rung in that csp.txt file? And how i'll add the new rung in the CSP.TXT file?

2. I'll download only SEQ file to R, S, T processors or any other files should be download along with SEQ file. Downloading procedure may be:




Or I can use EEPROM Downloader from Main menu...

Is it necessary to download to C or D core also?
1. To create the new CSP.PRN, you need to run the CSP Documentor. It will automatically add the changes to the CSP.PRN as it creates a new one. If you want to save the old one, you need to give it a unique name, because it will be overwritten by the CSP Documentor (in other words, the output of the CSP Documentor is always CSP.PRN and CSP_XREF.PRN). (I don't know where you got csp.txt from, unless you opened CSP.PRN in a text editor and then closed it and saved it as a .txt file.)

2. I would download from the command prompt, as you have written. I would download to <C> as well, even though you haven't changed anything in <C>, everything that is in <Q> (<R>, <S>, and <T>) is a subset of what's in <C> and you have changed signal names in <Q>.

If your panel had a <D>, then you should download to it, also, for the same reason you downloaded to <C>.

Be sure to look at the output of the EEPROM Downloader as you download to each processor, and before you download to the next processor. Resolve any errors before continuing. As long as you don't re-boot the processor if there are any errors, it won't affect anything.
Dear CSA,

Thank u very much. I have added total 35 alarms following your steps. Now it is possible to find all newly created signals in the rung display. By running CSP documenter all newly created alarms are found in cross reference and also CSP.TXT or CSP.PRN. Now I am ready to download to r,s,t and c core.

Thank u very much.
Dear CSA,

How are u? I have downloaded newly configured program to our all Mark v panel with out any error.

Now I got two new problems:

1. Local <I> of unit2 can not run CSP documentor, it shows the following message:

Runtime error 200 at 14F1:0091

But in both remote <I> in control room CSP documentor runs without any error message in the Unit specific diretory: F:\Unit2>csp.exe

2. Another problem is for Unit4: the 1st remote <I> in control room shows error messages during compilation (MK5MAKE.BAT)after putting the three modified files in the directory (F:\Unit4>)

error messages are: Unable to find BBL TTXSPV4 rung no. 94 .

But when I go to rung display I find them all rungs (example TTXSPV4) even the newly modified rungs are available in the rung display.

The local <I> for Unit4 and 2nd remote <I> in control room work fine without any error messages with same modified files.
Do all the Mark Vs have the same cards and PROMsets installed in them?

If they do, then you can just copy the modified files, including the new CSP Printout files (CSP.PRN and CSP_XREF.PRN) to the other <I>s with no problems. Running the CSP Documentor can take a long time (as I'm sure you found out), especially if IDOS is running.

If you're determined to run the CSP Documentor on every <I>, my recommendation is to stop IDOS (by typing IDOSEXIT at any command prompt) and then change to the appropriate unit-specific directory (F:\UNIT2 for example) and then run the CSP Documentor. When it finishes, you can re-start IDOS by typing RUN_IDP at any command prompt, or just re-boot the <I> CPU.

If the Mark Vs are not the same and don't have the same cards/PROMsets, then you have a problem, and it's kind of messy. And you didn't tell us if all the Mark Vs are the same or not, and neither did I ask, so apologies for that.

I can't imagine why the CSP Compiler is throwing the error message that you cited; unless, the files you copied were from a Mark V that didn't use the same PROMsets or there is some problem with the files in the PROM subdirectory. This would be very difficult to try to troubleshoot over this forum. We really need to know if all the Mark Vs you want to modify are exactly the same (cards and PROMsets).

With regard to Problem 2, it's also possible that the <I>s aren't all at the same level. There are just so many possibilities for errors and problems with the Mark V. And, again, it will be very difficult to troubleshoot them over this forum.
Further clarification to Issue #2: When you go to Rung Display, you are looking at what is in the CSP Segment Source files on the <I>, not what is running in the Mark V. Live data from the Mark V is used to "animate" the elements of the rungs in Rung Display. With Rung Display you are *NOT* actually looking at what's running in the Mark V, you're just looking at what is in the CSP segment source files on the <I> that is communicating with a running Mark V. (The intent is that what's in the Mark V should be what is in the CSP segment source files; in other words, what's running in the Mark V should be the compiled/downloaded version of what's in the CSP segment source files.)

I'm very concerned about that error message, because that BBL is part of the Combustion Monitor protection where the various exhaust temperature spreads and adjacencies are calculated. That's why I asked about whether or not all of the Mark Vs are of the same vintage and use the same cards and PROMsets.

I have re-read this thread from the beginning and I see that you said one time that the site had multiple turbines. I presumed they were all of the same vintage and use the same cards and PROMsets, and that all of the <I>s are properly updated to the same software. If not, this is very messy, indeed.

Like I said earlier, I'm regretting this.
Dear CSA,

The second problem I solved by making zip of PROM subdirectory from another remote <I> (good one) cuz this two <I>s are completely same. Then I compiled and got to error messages.

But runtime error of the local <I> (1st problem) while running CSP documentor not solved yet. I tried by stopping IDOS and putting to the command (CSP.EXE) but still no work. Even I copied CSP.PRN and CSP_XREF.. from other working <I> computer's unit specific directory but no work!!
When you copy CSP.PRN and CSP_XREF.PRN to another computer, you don't have to generate a new one using the CSP Documentor. As long as all the <I>s are the same (and the Mark V cards/PROMsets are the same), then if the same CSP is used in all the Mark Vs, the CSP would be the same for all.
Dear CSA,

Thank you very much for your help. Now we can get total no. of 36 alarms for our each gas turbine generator protection. Before these modification we had only one common alarm (Generator Electrical trouble) in Mark V. Now we have all these alarms for generator protection to identify many severe faults very easily.

Now for my own interest I want to know how to add any new transmitter (4-20 mA) in Mark V system.
You're welcome.

Adding inputs and outputs was covered in one of the Mark V manuals, either the Maintenance Manual (GEH-5980) or the Application Manual (GEH-6195). Please read that information, combine it with what you have already learned, compose a procedure, post it here, and we can refine it.

please help me!

Where can I find the procedure to add and edit alarms in a GE Mark V HMIs with CIMPLICITY?

I need to change the text of an existing alarm and add a new one in a GE Mark V HMIs with CIMPLICITY.
It's no secret that I'm not a fan of GE Mark V HMIs. There are just too many combinations of MS-Windows and TCI and CIMBRIDGE and CIMPLICITY and CIMPLICITY Service Packs and Signal Manager and Workbench, and many of them require slightly different procedures--and <b>NONE</b> of them are documented anywhere to my knowledge.

Which is the biggest reason I'm not a fan of them. If I could help, I would. But I don't have any procedures nor do I believe that any exist (not written procedures from GE anyway, which is where they should have originated).

If I can force myself to sit in front of one of them (and it takes a great deal of willpower to do so) I can usually manage to accomplish minor tasks, but not before backing everything up at least once to the existing hard drive and to removable media (CDs)! And it usually takes quite a while as I'm tentative and unsure of myself with GE Mark V HMIs.
Hello! We want to modify a rung in a BBL, for example add a signal in parallel with the contact L43DETS in the “Diesell4” BBL, to run the Diesel engine in test mode, since according internal procedures of the plant DE have to be test for 10’ every week. And to “Help the operator” not to stay 10’ pressing the pushbutton 43DE, We need to creat new buttons which are relatively easy, but to add the contact in parallel to L4DETS to excite the coil L4DE inside the BBL we can’t find how to edit this BBL Diesell4, any help? In the Manuel We found that we have to change the rung type from RDL To CBL, but this would blank out totally the RDL matrix. Is it right? Thanks!!
Hello! We want to modify a rung in a BBL, for example add a signal in parallel with the contact L43DETS in the “Diesell4” BBL, to run the Diesel engine in test mode, since according internal procedures of the plant DE have to be test for 10’ every week. And to “Help the operator” not to stay 10’ pressing the pushbutton 43DE, We need to creat new buttons which are relatively easy, but to add the contact in parallel to L4DETS to excite the coil L4DE inside the BBL we can’t find how to edit this BBL Diesell4, any help? In the Manuel We found that we have to change the rung type from RDL To CBL, but this would blank out totally the RDL matrix. Is it right? Thanks!!
forgot to mention that is a mark V <I>, TMR