Mark V Timers and counters


Thread Starter


While downloading IO_CFG after replacing TCDA/TCQA/SLCC PROM UPGRDE timers and counters are reset to zero. Before doing download we have noted all counters & timers readings.
Is it possible to retrieve data?
We have tried "EEPROM DOWN Tn R/S/T TOTD", but not success.

Can anybody can help?

It's not the IOCFG partition which contains the Totalizer Data info; it's TOTD_Q.DAT (for <I>s; TOTD_Q.AP1 for HMIs). It sounds as if the ALL option was used when downloading--ALL includes FORMAT and TOTD data.

If you have the values prior to the upgrade and you were working with GE on the upgrade, you should be able to give the info to the GE Field Engineer/TA, he/she can open a PAC (Power Answer Center) Case, and an engineer in Salem, Virgina, USA, can run a utility program to generate a new TOTD_Q file which can then be downloaded to the panel. (As you can imagine, this is a very closely guarded utility and only factory personnel have access to it.)

The "catch" is that after downloading a new TOTD_Q file ALL THREE control processors (<R>, <S>, AND <T>) must be powered down such that they are ALL shut off for 10 or 15 seconds and then powered-up normally, one at a time. So, the turbine CANNOT be running when this is done. (This is because of the way EEPROM Totalizer data is updated in a TMR panel from RAM values. The new data in EEPROM can be overwritten by the "bad" RAM values if all three processors are not shut down with the "good" data and then powered-up so that the good data is copied into RAM during the initialization/boot-up process. Totalizer data is updated in RAM and periodically copied from RAM to EEPROM; only factory personnel can determine when the update will take place, but it happens approximately every 60 minutes, though not necessarily on the hour. By downloading the "good" Totalizer data to EEPROM, then powering down all three processors, then powering them up the "good" data is copied from EEPROM to RAM and the values are updated in RAM after that, then periodically copied into EEPROM where they can be retrieved using EEPROM Downloader or will be copied back to RAM if the processor is rebooted.)

For future reference, before performing the upgrade you can use the EEPROM Downloader to upload the TOTD info which "captures" the current values to TOTD_Q.DAT (for <I>s; TOTD_Q.AP1 for HMIs). BUT, the same procedure of powering down all three processors must be followed any time new TOTD_Q data is to be downloaded and must be copied into RAM.
Hi markvguy,

I am very thankful for your quick response, really your answers are helpful for me to learn more.

As per the TIL 1480-2, we were doing prom upgrade in six frame 6 units. All the units except one, prom replaced successfully. But one of the unit we did one mistake, after changing all prom revision numbers in the IO configuration ,forget to download IO configuration in to R S T C and D before power down, after power down only we came to know this. Then changed new proms and power up all processors and EEPROM DOWN IOCFG to all and rebooted. We found all Timers and counters are reset.

GE TA is open a PAC for this case and waiting for a new TOTD_Q file.

One more doubt Sir

TOTD_API.DAT files will not update in HMI periodically?

No; TOTD_Q.AP1 does NOT automatically update. It's not written to by any compiler, and can only be "updated" in the field by UPLOADing the EEPROM values using the EEPROM Downloader (which is a manual operation).

Check the file time/date stamps before you upload the Totalizer Data... The file size won't change after the upload--only the contents will be changed.
We have received TOTD_Q.AP1 and TOTD_Q.DAT files from GE. Copy this files to F:\UNITn and EEPROM down loaded to <R>,<S> and <T> and rebooted all three processors at same time.

All the counters are retrieved OK.
Gas Totalizer in the display start increasing from zero, after few minutes this reading is went up to 10000.00 SM3 and it is increasing. Point ID We checked in the graphic found (({UNIT}ACCUM_24_MSW SHL 16) +{UNIT} ACCUM_24 LSW)

Could you please help us to solve this issue

Thank you for all your helps

It's not clear from your question whether the gas fuel totalizer started incrementing before or after you re-started the unit after downloading and rebooting the processors.

Mark V accumulators used to totalize values such as gas- or liquid fuel consumption are notoriously inaccurate. Usually, the gas fuel totalizer is "built" using the feedback from the gas fuel flow element(s), and the gas fuel flow feedback never usually reads zero when the unit is not running (in other words, there always appears to be a small amount of gas fuel flowing even when the unit is not running or is running on liquid fuel). This, however, is not the only source of inaccuracy.... While management or accounting personnel usually want to use totalized fuel flow to check revenue meters or billing, the Mk V totalizers just aren't accurate enough and management or accounting personnel only bemoan the lack of accuracy--constantly.

The term SHL is a CIMPLICITY bitwise operator which performs a left shift of the value ACCUM_24_MSW by sixteen places. That value is added to the value of ACCUM_24_LSW and then displayed.

The assignment of CDB pointnames to accumulators (including totalizers) is made in one of two source files: TOTT_Q.SRC or ALLOCSSP.ASG. The assignment for the first 24 accumulators is usually made in TOTT_Q.SRC.

Look in TOTT_Q.SRC for the twenty-fourth assignment to determine the signal being used to "drive" the totalizer. Then, use a Demand Display to check the "unscaled" values of ACCUM_24_MSW and ACCUM_24_LSW to ensure they are incrementing properly.

The likely result is going to be that once the value was "reset" after it initialized (when it jumped to 10000) it will probably increment properly from now on.... Does this appear to be happening? You will mostly likely have to start totalizing gas fuel flow "from the beginning" and/or just manually add the previous value to any obtained from the Mk V.

If the totalizer "worked properly" before the PROM upgrade, you can always have the GE Field Engineer/TA re-open the PAC Case.

It's always helpful to prepare a comprehensive checklist of activities whenver performing mult-step procedures, such as upgrading PROMs. The list should be reproduced, one per unit, and each and every step should be "checked off" to ensure that each and every step was performed. What happened with your PROM upgrade is very common on multi-unit sites, as individuals naturally get into a "rythym" after the second or third unit and just fail to check off a step, or check off a step which wasn't yet completed. Due to the dearth of proper documentation for performing most procedures on a Mark V, when one is presented (such as with a PROM upgrade package) it must be carefully reviewed and followed on every unit. It helps to have two people, both familiar with the procedure, watching over each other very closely during such procedures.

Fortunately, most errors--like this one--only cause a "book-keeping" problem, and what with the undue influence most accounting personnel have on plant operations these days a little inconvenience for them doesn't cause this writer even the least concern. (When was the last time someone in accounting actually made your job easier or facilitated some engineering function?)
Gas fuel flow totalizer started incrementing at unit shutdown state. This issue may be from the beginning, nobody noticed before. I have checked another unit after shutdown, gas totalizer incrementing in that unit also at zero speed.

In ‘GAS_FLOW_CAL1 flow’ block FQG is calculated as follows in SEQ_NOX1 FQG = Squire root of [ FGUP / (FTG + 460Deg F) * FQKGSG {shift -1}] multiplied by FQKGG {shift -4}

We have separate gas flow calculation meter in the individual GT, it is connected PLC There is no flow element is directly or indirectly connected to Mark V.

Thank you for all helps and advice/

You are most welcome; it's very good to hear back from questioners whether or not they are satisfied with the responses.

As long as you keep providing feedback (positive or negative) about the responses to your questions, the answers will keep coming!