While trying to get the configuration file uploaded to the laptop using comtext I get error #81 (unable to communicate). Someone told me that it could be the "transfer function" not being programmed in the TD10, which would mean I cannot upload. Anyone else have any ideas on this?

Thanks
Mike

 

Hi, I´m HMI promotor in Mexico, sorry because I can´t help you. But maybe you can help me. I´m looking for a TD 10 electronic manual in English.
Do you have one or do you know where I can find one?

Regards

Lupita

 

i had the same problem. I have used all sorts of old kit (PG710, PG750, 3 different versions of Step 5 to start it) all with no avail. Have you fixed it?

[email protected]

 

I am not quite sure what the transfer function is, but are you putting the TD into download mode before starting to communicate with it, and are the serial parameters for the download mode set up correctly. If there is no menu setting to get to transfer mode, then there is a "reset" key sequence you can carry out which starts the TD in download mode when the power is switched on, I cannot remember the key sequence but a short email to the Siemens A&D hotline will solve that problem.

Regards
Donald pittendrigh

 

Did you find a manual - if so can you send it to me?

([email protected])

 

I actually did contact Siemens and they told me how to delete the current config and start over. I did find out how to, eventually, but to no avail... I still could not communicate with the TD.

Mike

 

About the best I have is a brochure of sorts.
Mike

 

Hi Mike

Did you use a home brew cable or a Siemens one, if homebrew, send me the pinouts and I will check it for you, I have a cable here somewhere which
works. Otherwise it sounds like you have done all the right things, and is therefore possible the TD port is blown, this does happen. Only way to prove this is to find another TD which is working and prove your hardware is OK.

Good luck
Donald P
(donaldp(AT)iasicc.co.za)

 

Donald, Siemens gave me the part number and I purchased that cable. It is 6XV1440-2KH32. I also have a .bmp of the cable, which lists various operator panels and touch panels. The TD10 is not listed. The TD10 does work with the PLC, so I think it is either the cable or the speed of the PC I'm using to communicate with. I have an old 386 laptop I'm going to try to use.

Thanks
Mike

 

Hi Mike

First off you have the wrong cable there, it is possible it may have the same pinouts as the right cable, however no guarantee, the one you have is to make an online connection to a TI505, the programmer interface cable uses TTY and has the part number 6ES5731-1BD20 Now your problem is
aggravated if you are using a laptop, I cannot remember if there is any way to make an RS232 connection from PC to the TD20, for a very long
time now I have been using only Profibus interfaces with these TD's but I do know that there is a RS232 to TTY interface converter which is used for programming of the S5 CPU's, I do not know where you are going to get one of these.

By the way if you can lay your hands on a Siemens programmer with a standard S5 interface cable that works on a 115U online interface, this will also communicate with the TD, but only when you use a Siemens programmer.

If you have a fax number I will send you the relevant page from the TD manual, if you have a manual you will find the info on page 9-5, the
part number of the manual is 6AV3091-1CA00-0AB0, however your chances of getting one of those is rather slim, they were pre-PDF generation, and
are sure to be out of print. Mine is not for sale!!!!

Email me at donaldp(at)iasicc.co.za with the fax no. if you like.

DP

 

On April 3, 2003 17:35, Mike Burlingame wrote: <clip>
> Donald, Siemens gave me the part number and I purchased that cable. It is
> 6XV1440-2KH32. I also have a .bmp of the cable, which lists various
> operator panels and touch panels. The TD10 is not listed. The TD10 does
> work with the PLC, so I think it is either the cable or the speed of the PC
> I'm using to communicate with. I have an old 386 laptop I'm going to try
> to use.


I believe that Mr. Pittendrigh may be right, and you are using the wrong cable. I think you need to use the same RS-232 to TTY cable you use to program the S5 PLC. However, this is an old device and I may be remembering it incorrectly.

However, there is a bit of a trick to all this. There are really 3 sorts of cables which have been used with the OP series. One is the same unpowered TTY to RS-232 cable which you can use to program the S5 PLCs. This actually draws power from the S5 programming port, but people call it the "unpowered" cable because you don't have to supply separate power to it. There is also a powered version of this cable which has a separate power supply (a small wall transformer). This is required for some S5 series devices which don't supply power to a programming cable. There was also often the option of RS-232, using different pins on the same port.

B & B Electronics sold a powered TTY to RS-232 adaptor (in fact Siemens used to re-sell it). Siemens should still sell the "unpowered" TTY adaptor as a service part. However, if you are using this with an S5 PLC, you would already have a cable, wouldn't you?

I don't have a TD 10 manual, but I do have an OP20, which I believe is from the same era (although not the same hardware). If I recall correctly, you can add I/O modules into the back of the TD10, including extra ports. How many ports are on the back of the TD10? Are you sure you are plugged into the right one? Are the parameters set correctly? With the TTY cable, I believe you only had one parameter choice. With RS-232, you had more options, but also more ways to go wrong (at least on the later OPs).

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Michael Griffin
London, Ont. Canada
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Hi All

I have done a bit of investigation into the problem, the cable is right, it uses standard RS232 pinouts except the ground on the TD is on pin 12 instead of 5. There was an amendment to my manual which states that for programming by PC there is a switch to be switched between TTY and V24. I have forwarded this info to Mike, lets see how far he gets.

There is a whole story with this TTY thing, the TD is passive so there are a few bridges and things inside the programmer cable, which is why some programmer cables work on the TD and others don't. Thank goodness for Profibus.

Donald P

I believe that Mr. Pittendrigh may be right, and you are using the wrong cable. I think you need to use the same RS-232 to TTY cable you use to program the S5 PLC. However, this is an old device and I may be remembering it incorrectly.

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Thanks Michael and Donald for your help. I actually was in to work today and uploaded the configuration onto an old 386 laptop. The only things left now are 1) How the TD knows which message to display and 2) What the data format KS stands for. 3) Interface data block and event area and what they correspond to in more modern displays. 4) Characters for arrived and departed.

Thanks
Michael Burlingame

 

Hi All

The KS format is a string constant 1 byte wide.

The Siemens alarm system uses 3 statuses of fault, arriving fault when it first happens, departing fault when it becomes healthy again, and acknowledged fault when the ack button has been pushed. By default these faults are assigned the characters K, G and Q, which makes no sense at all unless you know that in German Kommen is to come, Gehen is to go and Quittieren is to acknowledge.

I have skipped items 1 and 3 as they are total essays on their own, if you don’t find a manual on the Siemens web as I advised, send me another mail and I'll fax the pages.

Donald P

 

1) If you are using "events", it displays the event corresponding to which event bit you have turned on. The event bits are allocated in the event area (16 events per event word). I would suggest that you create a message for each unused event (e.g. "Event 27") in an event word. This will make debugging much easier if you trigger the wrong event.

2) "KS" stands for string format. The memory in the PLC is displayed as a string of ASCII characters (two characters per word). You can use this for string data which is defined in your PLC rather than in the TD (i.e. you have data which is undefined when the TD program is created).

3) The interface block is the area of memory which the TD talks to for things like events and other "standard" types of data (including some which are not present in something as simple as a TD). This is normally a data block. The TD will poll this memory regularly. The event area is the words which control the event messages (see above).

If you are using an S5 PLC, there is also an interface data block for the special function block which acts as a "driver" for the TD. You have to initialise this block when the PLC starts up, but otherwise it belongs to the FB and the TD and you leave it alone.

4) "Arrived" is when an event becomes active (event bit turns on), "departed" is when it goes away (event bit turns off). This is really only significant if the TD has an event history feature. The event history is a time stamped buffer in an OP which can be used to review when events turned on ("A") and off ("D"). I don't know if the TD10 has this.

The Siemens text OP/TD series has been very consistent from the OP20 up to the current model OP17 (they are not numbered in order of age). If you look for a manual on the first generation OP15 you should find information which you can apply to the TD. The TD will work in a similar fashion, but will be missing features such as "alarms".

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Michael Griffin
London, Ont. Canada
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Just a little update for Donald and Michael. On Sunday I did a little playing around with the OI I ordered. Although it took a little reasoning before hand (hence all of the questions), the unit works fine and as well as I hoped. The only thing I dont like is the way the PLC program works, but unless the company buys S5 programming software I can do nothing about that. The bits in the event list are turned on and off by the logic which would be somewhat similar to the message request function. As a result using the event list of the OI is impractical as the specific event would arrive and be acknowledged every time the PLC clears the bit and sets another bit for another event and then recycles back to the original event........ Still, it is a lot better than no message at all which is where we have been for at least a year.

Thanks again Donald and Michael for your insight and help.

Michael Burlingame

 

I am pleased to hear that we were of some help. I don't recall which model of S5 PLC you are using, but I thought it would be useful to mention that there are two versions of the Step-5 software. One version programs all models of S5 PLC, while the "mini" version programs the S5-100U, 102, 103, 90, and 95 (the smaller models). The "mini" version is considerably cheaper than the full version. If this is all you need for the hardware you have in your plant, then you might consider it if you decide to buy some software.


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Michael Griffin
London, Ont. Canada
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