Question on Career Path, PE

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Thread Starter

goodoboy

Hello, currently I work for local EPC company in Houston. I have been here 4 years since graduation from college, mostly involved in specifying instrumentation and studying the P&ID for changes. Also, producing purchase packages for the vendor. I have not gained any PLC, DCS, or SIS experience. The configuration and programming work of these systems is contracted to vendor (Emerson, Honeywell, etc.) to complete. We only write the systems specification for the vendor to abide by. I learned Allen Bradley SLC 503 PLC programming at a local community college and wrote some programs at home studying www.thelearningpit.com. But this was about 6 months ago. For the last 4 months, the company is downsizing and I have been aggressively looking for any work in the Control Systems field to gain more knowledge of this systems and hands-on. I have had no luck so far. The only companies that are interested are other EPCs companies in the Houston area. In EPC, I know they will assign me to one instrument and I will be stuck with this for months and never do any design. Design work is normally given to Sr. Engineers. I need to be in the field learning how to troubleshoot, etc.

I want a more challenging career in Control System Engineering and currently have a complex time finding a Jr. Control Systems Engineer position due to my lack of experience with the systems. I recently went to an interview with a control and automation engineering company and the interview was brutal. But I enjoyed it, although I could not program the PLC and answer most of the systems questions. The interviewer suggested I needed more hands-on experience with PLC programming and troubleshooting. He recommended the PE would not be useful if I don’t have practical experience.

My questions are:

1. Should I take the PE exam in October although I feel as if I don’t have the enough experience? Of course I can read many books and testing centers and pass this way. Or should I at least try and join a new company first.

2. Should use this time to continue studying programming Allen Bradley PLC at plcs.net and thelearningpit.com? I bought the software already at thelearningpit.com and I can order the books on plcs.net to begin studying. This way at the next interview I can go into detail and be well prepared if ask to program or identify functionality with PLC. This is not real world experience, but its start.

Currently, I am looking heavily for any company looking for Jr. CS Engineer with willingness to learn and be motivated. Most companies want contractors who have this experience already.

I just don’t know how to use my spare time to make sure I get the career job I want. Should I study for PE or studying PLC and DCS systems?

Thanks for any advice/questions/comments you may have.
 
Nevermind the part about taking the PE exam in October 2011, I do not meet the 4 year engineering experience qualification.

So now, I need to know what to do to get the job I want.
 
Opinions are my own from my experience, but I'm your peer.

1) Take the PE and pass it. At the end of the day, the test is an academic exercise and getting it done sooner rather than later is best. By no means am I discounting the test (it's TOUGH and I'm studying for it too), but there are plenty of books/classes/resources out there. I've seen extremely worthless and technically clueless "engineers" with PE after their name......

2) If you really want to be something in this industry, you should try to become a field engineer for a few years. Do commissioning, servicing, modifications, etc. Many here will agree that 1yr in the field going to plant after plant is easily worth 5-10 years in the office (or more).

3) Find the right company. If you are smart and hard working, you can learn what you need on your own or when the job requires, but you need a company culture that appreciates and encourages this. Very few do.

4) The economy/recession/downturn/etc. has hit the industry some, especially for us younger guys. However, if you are talented, got dirty fingers (*cough* field experience) and can walk the walk, there will always be opportunity. However, you have to talk to the correct people at companies (kindly put, get around HR and the "gatekeepers"). One way to rub shoulders is to go to expos like PowerGen, Power Expo, professional org meetings (ASME) etc. There's lots of grayhairs in this industry that like to bitch about us youngsters (and in most cases they are right, our peers are lazy, etc)....however one can use young age as a strong point because grayhairs often like to teach......
 
Hello goodoboy

just a quick suggestion from my side.. to quote what u said in u'r last posting:
"I need to be in the field learning how to troubleshoot, etc."

my suggestion would be:
1. Look up this website: www.linkedin.com, and register yourself there.. it's a good website where head hunters are constantly looking for people to give jobs..

2. Try looking up this company: Alstom... they have very good EPC & field service organization, where field engineers do exactly what u are looking for: "troubleshoot, etc."

In these organizations, Alstom has field engineer positions for gas turbine commissioning engineers, power plant control commissioning engineers, steam turbine commissioning engineers, electrical commissioning engineers. Based on your posting, perhaps you may want to inquire about the power plant control commissioning engineers.

In USA, Alstom has offices based in Richmond, VA, Jupiter, FL, and Chattanooga, TN. Alstom Field Service organization is headquartered in Richmond VA. There they have field engineers as i described above. Jupiter FL has its R&D center where I believe they are doing s'thing similar to what u are doing now, i.e.: engineering & designing automation systems. Last i check, less than a month ago, i think they have an opening, titled "DCS Systems Engineer". Perhaps it's worth a check.

So, just some suggestion from my side. I hope things work out for u for the better, all the best!

Best regards
 
C

curt wuollet

Yes, it's the chicken and the egg problem, they want experience before you can get any experience. I can empathize, I have lots of experience, but in this market they can demand that you have a BS to be a dog catcher. And with 200 applicants for every job, they can always find somebody younger and cheaper. But, don't be discouraged, the way to get the experience is to take the jobs that are less popular. If you are able to travel, go for field service, if not, investigate maintenance jobs. You will be underemployed for now, but it's good to be any type of employed today. And no one will fault you, if you explain that you did it for the experience. I'd be employed today if I had a degree in anything, even liberal arts. It's just a weed out. And I tripled the responses to my resume by shortening it and omitting all dates. It's just a rough market for another year or two.

Regards
cww
 
> So now, I need to know what to do to get the job I want.

One suggestion if looking for job, the best and free site is Indeed[dot]com. At this site you can custom designed your search, and select your field, every week you get reply from them. In my opinion if you already have degree, there is no sense to go for further study. All you will learn with the company you are working and again company may pay for your tuition. This is just my thoughts. This site is very good and no kidding I learned a lot just reading all the postings from these gurus.

Good Luck
 
Thanks for your response and others. Yes, I agree I need to join the right company. Currently, I work for EPC company in Houston and all work is done in-office.

Here is my worries:

1. Should I spend the countless hours studying PLCs programming at home learning to program through online resources and books?

2. Or should I just continue looking for field work at the 1-2 year experience involving PLCs and other controls systems work?

The reason I say is because I studying at home (www.thelearningpit.com and www.plcs.net) would require lots of time and its not real world experience in a work place. So far , i took PLC course at local community college and while on interview or phone interview selling my skills that is overlooked.

Any advice.
 
I am by no means a control expert. I just know enough to usually get things working (and then it may take me some time with references to learn the system...but it's all I/O's and logic in the end). I guess it depends on what you want to do. Do you want to be a system integrator and spec/program the units or do you want to be more on the installation/commissioning side? For me, the latter is more interesting, challenging, and usually pays more (people want results yesterday).

I barely passed my controls class in college and the teacher said I would never understand the stuff. On my first job out of school I was doing some simple tuning work on DCS and the like. What is interesting is that the practical side isn't always as involved or complex as the book people make it out to be. However, you need to think on your feet and rely on the knowledge in the brain.

For a younger guy like me, I see lots of opportunity because all the old salt field engineers are retiring. Most people my age don't like to get dirty or be in the plants around the workers--I love it. You can't outsource field engineering because it takes a special breed.

Again, my input is do field work. The mere fact that you are in and around plants is great learning, even if you aren't doing much with your company. If you are friendly and curious, operators will teach you stuff. Power plant people are great people regardless of where you go in the world...it's almost like a brotherhood--once you join it a lot of doors open. Being a "field engineer" will always bring credibility in this industry....we are the ones that make it work in the end.
 
Thanks for your input.

I want to be an Instrument and Controls Engineer that works in the field. Currently, I work at Fluor where we design and specify all the instruments and controls on paper in office. I never go to field and install and commission the instruments or the control systems.

I want to work in the plant. I worked their for 2 years doing labor work and enjoyed. I want to be challenged and think on the feet as you said before as I feel these are my strong points.

The problem is I don't have the field experience to get a field engineering job. This is very complex.

Most jobs I see for Controls Engineer field positions require 5 year min PLC, DCS, or SIS configuration and programming in the plant. Some say 2-3 years experience actual plant experience.

I am EIT certified and now I decided to purchase a PLC kit http://www.plctrainer.net/100_2333.JPG and beginning learning how to program, break, fix, and configure the PLC myself. Then I can show the employer at the interview that I do have PLC experience. I will ask them to give me any problem PLC problem to solve and I will show them on my kit. This is what I can only do now. I been to 2 interviews and rejected simply because I don't have this experience, and I don't know what else to do. Currently, I am doing small tasks at work hoping to not be laid off because of projects reduction.

So all I can do for now is teach myself PLCs with my own kit I bought (expensive too) and continue looking for work.

But you are right, there are alot of youngster that just want to sit in the office and design and not want to get the hands dirty.

Any other advice.

Thanks
 
Flour, Shaw, Bechtel, and all the other big EPC's all have commissioning departments/experts. Get on the commissioning team at a project if you can. Express to somebody with some pull you really desire to get into commissioning. Getting in the door is the hardest part--once you been there it gets easier. I wouldn't even worry about what the job is on site, just get on site. The ability to succeed is up to the individual--on site nobody will hold your hand and introduce you to people or help you with step by step how to solve the problem.

I worked on a Flour project commissioning a scrubber (not for Flour, for the vendor). The actual controls guy was a contract hire. He did all the Ovation work. Flour had the construction team and then turned it over to their commissioning team.

Be flexible, say you wanna travel, and inquire about getting on site to every project out there and something will hopefully work out. Timing and luck are just as important as experience and education!
 
C

control_lurker

> my suggestion would be:

> 1. Look up this website: www.linkedin.com, and register yourself
> there.. it's a good website where head hunters are constantly looking for
> people to give jobs..

In addition to this you might want to join a LinkedIn "control" or "automation" group. Once logged on to LinkedIn just search control or automation and click "join this group". There are also regular postings for jobs for control engineers. You may also find some companies that you didn't know existed that operate in the controls arena. You can "follow" those companies and get regular updates.

Follow the posts and discussion there as well as here. You will be able to find out what people are talking about, what employers are looking for, and possibly find someone willing to hire and train.

Use all the resources available. Good Luck.
 
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