I use Allen-Bradley PLCs in my plant. Up to recently I've used an A-B Panelview when needed. On my latest application I used the new Panelview Plus with RSviewME. Disaster is probably too strong a word, though disappointment is probably not strong enough. A-B is pricing the old Panelviews to persuade their customer to switch to the newer Panelview Plus but I can't see myself buying another one without some assurance that the endless bugs I've experienced have been exorcised (I do have the latest software update/patch/release). I am considering for the first time OITs from another manufacturer but I'm concerned about compatibility issues. I want to avoid jumping out of the frying pan in to the fire, so to speak. Does anyone have any recommendations of OITs that work well with A-B PLCs? …and just out of curiosity, has anyone experienced difficulty with RSviewME?

 

We have also had some problems with a PanelView Plus. We are using a PV+ 1500 as a local Operator Interface with a CLogix and PLC-5 system. Connection via Ethernet. Also have a main SCADA system (Adriot) connected to the same system.

The basic problem we had with the PV+ was that it kept 'freezing' (usually after screen changes). Contacted A-B and they recommended a flash update, which is where the problems started. Basically, due to impatience (or was it incompetence ?), I mucked up the flash upgrade and ended up with a dead PV+.

However, A-B Tech Support were very helpful and after they sent me a flash card image by email, I managed to get the thing working again. One thing not mentioned in any A-B docs is "Never format the flash card" (by pure luck I hadn't, but it was so close). I found it very useful to have a flash card reader.

Anyhow the first flash upgrade didn't stop the thing 'freezing up' and we had to wait 2-3 months for FUW3.20.00 before the problem was finally cured. By that stage I was very familiar with the flash upgrade procedure !

Overall, we are now pretty happy with the PV+. My view of RSView ME Studio is more mixed. Mostly it is a pretty good product, but it gets let down big time by little things. So while I got to do some good stuff (import DXF drawings), the alarm configuration was a complete pain as I couldn't define the alarms in a text or CSV file (why A-B chose to use xml I don't know).

Also I had to recreate multiple copies of the same diagram (but with different tags). I couldn't use parameter files, because I wanted to have different links on each version and parameter files can't do that. Unfortunately, in addition, you can't just make a copy of a diagram using a file manager, rename it and use a text editor to change the tags, but have to go through the pointy-clicky editor for every diagram (RSI here I come).

I have never used a PV or PVe, so can't really compare it with earlier products (only previous experience with A-B terminals was the T30 and since then it has been mainly DCS). Like I said, generally fairly happy with it although feel RSView Studio is let down by small niggly things.

 

I have used CTC touch screens with AB PLCs and have never had any problems. I use these because they come with multiple comm ports and you can use practically any protocol.

 

I recently put in a Panelview plus and have had problems all the way. When I plug the unit in to the Ether hub my comm speed of the entire node (substation with a SLC 5/05 and numerous protective relays) slows to a crawl. I have worked with an integrator, the sales rep and AB support with no resolution to the problem. Old firmware, new firmware, program revisions,setting changes, a different Panelview plus and the only thing that helped was changing one of the S register settings in the PLC which is not supposed to be done. I have just ordered a Magelis G series touch screen that I am going to try out. My Modicon sales rep said that they are supposed to offer Allen Bradley protocols on the Magelis units this year.

I was very disappointed in the PV+ and have no plans to ever use one again.

 

I find myself in the same boat as the original poster... not impressed with the PanelView PLus... seems like a lot of unecessary complexity, very uninuitive and its hard to believe that it comes from the same supplier as the old PanelViews. At least the old PVs, you could stumble your way through and with a bit of practice, everything was pretty obvious. I also look forward to seeing what else is compatable with the ControlLogix series of PLCs.

Gerald Beaudoin

 

The PS series from CTC Parker Automation are nice and have nice looking controls. They are DOS based PC's about halfway between a hardware MMI and PC based like Wonderware.

I like the new touchscreens from Automation Direct (built by AVG Uticor), but have yet to use one with an A-B. They're a hardware MMI, excellent value for the money, and, unusual for a MMI, they actually allow online programming like a PLC. Downside: the controls don't look quite as nice. One other good point, especially since you wouldn't be doing a single source app: their technical support is excellent and free!

 

Roger what sort of issues are you having with the PV Plus's and RSViewME? We use a mix of PVs and PV+ on PLC5s and Clogix processors. After a "strained" start with the PV+ we are up and running "reasonably" we have come across a few bugs thou. Contact me off list if you like to discuss and will post anything that's relevant.

Neil
[email protected]

 

Siemens has a great line of CE panels that work well with Rockwell PLCs; PLC-5, SLCs, ControlLogix, Micro - DF1, DH485 and EtherNet/IP.

Ron

 

I use GE Fanuc's Viewstation Boxes and I've grown to love them. They use windows CE (no Windows Updates, No Virus worries, No Hard Drive to fail). They work flawlessly with every AB PLC I have (Contrologix, SLCs, and PLC 5s). I have only used ethernet comm, I haven't tried anything over serial.

 

I have worked with both the DOS based Interact and Interact X from CTC. They work well and are reasonably priced. I have had no communication issues or operating problems when connected to A-B PLCs. I do have a couple of gripes about CTC in general. They nickel and dime you on Interact if you desire their so-called optional modules such as trending. If you add a few of these items, Interact is not so cheap. Interact X is a licensing nighmare both on the runtime as well as development side. I know that copy protection is important but I believe there are better means to accomplish this. With those issues aside, I have no hesitation in using these packages with A-B PLCs. Just consider all of these factors when specifying these systems.

 

I have had nothing but success with Panelmates. I can recommend them without any feeling of guilt whatsoever.

OTOH, I am totally unimpressed with the PV+ line. I have now done two projects with them and in both cases had hardware problems requiring replacement.

I am also unimpressed with the software. They took an intuitive, easy to use, and relatively well documented program and made it difficult to use and with poor documentation, and for no reason that I can tell. They also made it very difficult to cut and paste inside the new objects, whereas in PB32 this was very easy. You could develop a lot of the stuff in Excel and just copy it in. Not possible in RSView Studio.

And don't get me started on RSLinx Enterprise.

It does have a nice feature of being able to run in emulation mode on the development machine, unfortunately, a fair number of things do not work exactly like they do on the target machine. When I mentioned this to tech support, they acknowledged this was the case and said that they do not guarantee that they will work exactly the same.

The confusion created by giving the product similar names to existing products is also annoying. As best I can tell there is absolutely no relationship between RSViewME and RSView32 other than the name.

The software does allow you to import old PB32 files into RSView Studio, and most of the objects will work in at least a similar way. The alarms are totally different though, and many of the objects work differently enough that you have to just try it to see if it will work as a replacement unit. It does seem to have fairly intelligent decisions about obtional selections inside objects when importing old PB32 files, but it also does some wierd things that are not obvious.

Another gripe is that even though it supposedly allows you to datalog to the CF card on the target machine, as best I can tell data logging and trending from the datalog model only works if you are running on the development machine in simulation mode, and does not seem to work on the target machine. I spend many hours on the phone with tech support trying to resolve this and other issues and they were never able to resolve this one.

In all fairness, I think I should mention that a coworker used one and experienced no problems at all.

JMHO.

 

I have worked with both the DOS based Interact and Interact X from CTC. They work well and are reasonably priced. I have had no communication issues or operating problems when connected to A-B PLCs. I do have a couple of gripes about CTC in general. They nickel and dime you on Interact if you desire their so-called optional modules such as trending. If you add a few of these items, Interact is not so cheap. Interact X is a licensing nightmare both on the runtime as well as development side. I know that copy protection is important but I believe there are better means to accomplish this. With those issues aside, I have no hesitation in using these packages with A-B PLCs. Just consider all of these factors when specifying these systems.

 

I've used both the 6" and 10" AutomationDirect EZTouch HMI panels Steve describes on A-B SLC500, and they do work. They *are* a bit crude-looking, but, for the price, it is a worthwhile tradeoff when snappy graphics aren't important.

One thing I did run into (and can't say it is a problem yet, because I haven't had time to contact them about it), but when I connected the 6" HMI to an older fixed SLC 500 5/01 digital states were read correctly, but trying to get values from the 4 channel analog card on the expansion rack yields errors. Didn't have this problem on a 5/03.

Another thing that happened twice was (when making online changes to a trend chart) the HMI memory corrupted and it crashed. Didn't have problem when changing the trend chart offline, and sending it down to the HMI, nor did this problem crop up when online and changing anything other than the trend charts. Again, haven't yet called them to see if this is a known problem.

One last observation - while the tag name database can be both exported and imported to/from a CSV file the alarm database is export only (at least, in the current configuration software). It would be nice if the alarms could be imported as well.

Bob

 

Have you tried Monitouch (from Hakko Electronics)? They will talk to just about any PLC, including PLC-5, ControlLogix and MicroLogix. There are multiple serial ports, so you can talk to 2 PLCs at once. Also, they allow online programming (either serial or ethernet).

 

Cutler Hammer PanelMates are by far the easiest to program and most versatile HMIs we have ever used. They will suffer the same failure rates as PanelViews, but installation and software loading is a breeze. You can master the software in a few hours (using DH+ protocol). I've used panelviews, RSView32, Automation direct, and a few others. RSView is wonderful except for the thousand or so odd glitches. PanelBuilder is a royal pain to learn and use. The automation direct units are easy to configure, but generally kinda cheesy, and have a higher failure rate in our plant.

Just my opinion
Paul C.

 

I have generally the same comments on Panelmates. They are by far the easiest to use, the easiest to program, and have much better tech support, and are extremely versatile. And tech support does not require a yearly tribute payment. And on top of that the manuals are actually quite good. They are not tag based so if that is important to you (and it should not be because in the end most of the time it just does not make any difference) you may not like it.

I have not had the same bad experience with panelbuilder you mentioned, but it does take some getting used to, and the manuals are not as well thought out as they could be. There are also the occassional software issues that never seem to happen with the panelmate software, but overall I would give Panelviews/Panelbuilder good marks.

I just can't say the same for panelview+ though. It has the advantage of being cheaper, but I have had many problems with them, and tech support has been of little help. RSView studio (the programming software) seems to be afflicted with the same kinds of software bugs that many of their other software products do. One interesting situation is that apparrently RSView Studio and the Panelmate software cannot be used on the same computer without doing some nonobvious workarounds. Unless hardware price is the main focus, I'd suggest sticking to the regular Panelview line if you want your OI to say AB on it. In fairness, others have not experienced the really awful things I have using this product, so it's entirely possible your experience with them might be different. It does have one big plus though - you can simulate the thing on your programming computer w/o having to download to the actual unit. Very handy.

RSView32 is a reasonably mature product, and while it does have some really annoying little quirks now and then, overall I find it to be a a solid package. I don't expect any large software package to be bug free or to be perfect in the way it is implemented. I do expect it to be servicable, and when problems come up to have decent tech support. The RSView tech support people are as solid as the product.

 

we use Advantec touchscreens but these can be a bit pricey and a bit of overkill on basic applications. they are basically stand alone CPUs but work excellent. we have them in harsh environments and have yet to replace one (knock on wood). they are a breeze to set up too if you are familiar with windows, rsview, and activeX controls.

 

I have been using the Maple-Systems HMI on the Allen-Bradley Micrologix with great success. They are easy to program and very inexpensive. The list price on the EZ-Builder software is $75. I have only used the RS232 communication. They have held up well for the last year in service.

http://www.maple-systems.com

 

I've used CTC Interact on Industrial computers and that is a user friendly app. that has quite robust graphics now on the newest version Interact X. You will probably put on a CE Machine now instead of a computer but it's less expensive and easy to use.

 

http://www.ezautomation.net.

They have some good HMIs that work well with all AB PLCs, including the new compaq logix and control logix over ethernet.