For approx. a month now I have been trying to convince the "Tech Support" people from Siemens that there is something strange going on with the Protool software.

I have a Dell computer that is loaded with all types of software. From Rockwell to Delta Controls, Rexroth and Parker. A customer specified that the product we were to ship used Siemens processors.

Fine, I loaded up Step 7 and Protool and got to work on the code. As soon as I attempted to integrate the HMI I could no longer get access to the screens to complete modifications. Funny thing is now I can't access a screen even on a non-integrated project. All I ever get is a server busy fault. I have to close Protool using the Task Manager.

I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling 5 seperate times. Uninstalls included the registers yet I still get the same result.

Anyone ever experience this?

Steve

 

It's really amazing and annoying but to modify nonintegrated projects first you have to delect integrate option from File menu before opening any projects and then protool will restart itself. hopefully it will work.

[email protected]

 

Hi Steve

You probably touched on your problem when you mentioned that you have all kinds of software on your machine. Windows software seems to be written by people who think that their software is the only thing you are going to load on your system. They often replace libraries, munge registries, install various init scripts, fire up background services that grab the ports, scatter files all over the partition and other such mischief without regard to how they interact with other packages that you might need to use. Often the results are not pretty. And since they very seldom tell you what they are doing and it's difficult for mere mortals to figure out what should be running and what shouldn't at any given time, it's not only very likely that you have a conflict, it's extremely unlikely that Siemens can help because there's no way of knowing which apps are conflicting.

What I have resorted to is multiple hdds with an OS and one vendors software for the more blatant of offenders. For the little used and less expansive stuff, I backup the drive before installing a new package. That way you have a reasonable chance of recovering when you find incompatibilities. The cost of another drive is miniscule compared to the time you can spend trying to figure out some of the chaos. I would do a clean OS install and then install Step 7 and Protool. That may well fix this, or at least give you a reproducible case to give to Siemens.

Regards

cww

 

If the various software packages are clashing then it may be worth looking at virtual machine. Commercial package ~ 100 bucks. This allows you to run multipile operating systems within the same PC box. I use this as I have a DeltaV system and allen bradley software on my laptop. I start the DeltaV machine or the Allen Bradley machine depending on what I want to do.

Steve Linehan

 

While I haven't seen your exact problem, a co-worker had to uninstall both Step-7 and Protool, and then edit the Windows registery entries by hand to eliminate all traces of the previous installation. I believe that he also had
to hunt down and erase certain files as well. The automatic uninstall doesn't actually uninstall everything. Once you have installed in "integrated" mode, it is very difficult to go back.

We have had enough problems with using Step-7 and Protool in "integrated" mode that our maintenance department insists that Step-7 programs be delivered "not integrated" for new equipment projects. The problems we have had, while not exactly the same as yours, are difficult to reproduce on a different computer. I am not therefore surprised that the people Siemens cannot find them.

As someone else has mentioned, this is not that unusual when you have a lot of complex WIndows software. The basic design of the Windows DLL library and Registry systems create a lot of potential for conflicts. The more direct
dependencies you create between different programs, the more potential you have for things to go wrong.

 

Hello Michael,
using Protool in "non integrated" mode sounds as a step backward... would you mind to provide details on the problems you experienced in "integrated" mode? I've got some problems too, but not so serious to abandon integration.

regards
Luca Gallina

 

The problems are related to Protool either refusing to open some programs or crashing when installed in integrated mode. The problems seem to occur for some Step-7 / Protool programs which were created by other companies, and then opened on our computers. If the program is opened on the same computer that it was created on, there is no problem. Our theory is that it is related to having different versions of software or different optional packages installed on the originating computer versus the one which is trying to open it later.

The problem is difficult to reproduce on demand, but does not seem to occur if Protool and Step-7 are not integrated. (There also does not appear to be any relation to the amount of RAM or hard disk space). The problem does not occur in every case, but given enough different programs from enough different suppliers, problems will be encountered in some of them.

"Non-integrated" mode may sound like a step backwards if your main use of the software is to write new programs. However, if the main use of the software is to maintain, debug, and make minor changes to large numbers of existing
machines, there is really very little, if any, advantage to "integrated" mode (at least in our applications). Our experience seems to indicate that if you are mainly dealing with programs that you have written yourself, you are unlikely to encounter the sorts of problems we have had. However, an operating plant has to deal with programs written by a great many third parties, and so likely has wider exposure to different combinations of software.

The above perhaps isn't enough to let someone get to the root of the problem..
We are not however going to sink any further time into researching a problem that we cannot fix in any case. We have a workable solution (non-itegrated mode) and have other problems to worry about.

 

I experienced both problems too. Protool refuses to open a project if the current version is not the same (or above) the version used when the program was last saved. To puzzle the users further, Protool just shows a mere "there's an error" message box instead of reporting a version conflict. I would expect something better by such a mature product.

About crashes, my Protool crashes seemed not related to Protool itself but rather to a particular installation of Windows (or Windows+Step7, you'll never know). Once the O.S. and Step7 were reinstalled, Protool crashed no more. The only side effect I experienced after a crash was the loss, in the Protool project, of the association between the Panel and the PLC. Once the association was restored in "controllers" parameters, and all PLC's variables were accessible again. It seems to me that the crash isn't necessarily related to projects developed by others: I looked at a number of third-party programs and even my own programs are often edited by using different PCs. I've rather the feeling that, in certain conditions, the Step7 project database has a way to garble itself. Perhaps, before attempting to use Protool, a "reorganization" command from S7Manager menu could help.

In any case, if "non-integrated" is a setting that will work in any condition, I'm glad to know it now.

best regards
Luca Gallina

 

> Protool refuses to open a project if the current version is not the same
> (or above) the version used when the program was last saved. <

No, this is simply a version dependency. While Protool is unusually sensitive to versions, I am referring to problems which occur when opening a program which should be compatable with the version of Protool used.

> About crashes, my Protool crashes seemed not related to Protool itself but
> rather to a particular installation of Windows (or Windows+Step7, you'll
> never know). Once the O.S. and Step7 were reinstalled, Protool crashed no
> more. <

It is actually rather difficult to be certain what the root cause is, especially since we can't be sure what "re-installing" actually *does* to fix the problem. The most likely explanation is that some sort of magic Windows
registry entries or DLL versions get reset when you re-install at a low enough level.

> It seems to me that the crash isn't necessarily related to projects
> developed by others: I looked at a number of third-party programs and even
> my own programs are often edited by using different PCs. <

We have come to the conclusion that there is a relation to using programs developed by others because it sometimes happens to certain programs which have been delivered to us, but never happens again to that program once we have edited it. The 'third party' effect may come into play from creating with one combination of software, and opening with a specific different combination.

The problem could be caused by certain combinations of versions which you haven't seen. The fact that you use different PCs may not mean anything, since you likely install similar software on all of them, and use them all
more or less the same way.

> I've rather the
> feeling that, in certain conditions, the Step7 project database has a way
> to garble itself. Perhaps, before attempting to use Protool, a
> "reorganization" command from S7Manager menu could help. <

Yes I would agree that the program source database gets garbled, but the question is what conditions cause this? Step-7 uses a very complex format for storing programs, so there is probably a lot of scope for things to go wrong.

> In any case, if "non-integrated" is a setting that will work in any
> condition, I'm glad to know it now. <

I don't want to recommend "non-integrated" as a panacea, it is just something which seems to have worked for us in our particular circumstance as an operating plant with a lot of different hardware of various ages. We also have a large number of small machines rather than a few large ones, so we are dealing with relatively few tags for each pair of PLC and OP programs. For people in other circumstances, the advantages of integrated mode may outweigh the disadvantages.

 

Steve,

I have the same problem. Siemens tech support finally told me a year ago that A/B and them had conflicting .dll files and legal steps were being taken. Have you ever found a resolution? I was told then the only fix was to install Allen Bradley and Siemens softwares on different PCs.