Hi Wes,

First of all, I don't think developing a SCADA system should be that hard if you are very familiar with a programming language. If not, then the situation is a bit more complicated.

I myself have plans on, with the help of others I hope, developing an open source SCADA because I'm very dissatisfied with the situation today which means I'm forced to use proprietary software. I wish I could totally move away from MS Windows and do all my work in GNU/Linux, but there's still a lot of work to be done before we get there.

Second, there actually is a swedish open source SCADA system, altough I haven't looked at it yet:
http://www.proview.se/

So, anyone up for developing an open source SCADA?

 

Hi Wes,

Try Proview at http://www.proview.se/
It's an Open Source SCADA system. I have never tried it myself but it seems promising.

I myself would like to develop an Open Source SCADA, with the help of others if someone is interested. I'm very disatisfied with the situation today, forced to use proprietary software and working in MS Windows. The best would be if I could do all my work in GNU/Linux but there's still a bit to go before we get there.

Anyone interested in developing an Open Source SCADA system?

/M

 

Well, it just so happens that I have some time on my hands.......The Printing Industry is tanking and my employer has decided they don't need Automation and Controls!!!??? Or at least they need someone younger and cheaper to do them. What Language?

Regards

cww

 

Great idea Kurt, to offer to help this guy.  Sorry to hear about your job though. 

Come to think of it, I am in a similar job situation and could help out also.  For me, I would like to work in a .Net environment, such as C#.  It has most everything one would need if you add a few third party products such as PLC drivers and maybe some charting tools. 

Bill Sturm

Abbeytronics LLC

 

First of all, I missed the part that stated that every post has to be controlled by some moderator so I wrote an identical second post before I understood how it works.

And I cannot delete my post if I would like.

Second, I program in Java but since the JVM isn't Open Source the problem with proprietary software still exists, altough in another shape.

I'm aiming at learning C this year.

You should try in the infrastructure sector, in Sweden... We are up to our ears with work and there's more to come. Every company I have worked with are looking for people. We need more people. We are in minority in Sweden, that's for sure.

/M

 

In reply to Patrick Barker: That is not what I meant by "MBLogic is not a SCADA". What I meant was that it doesn't (currently) log time series data to a database and produce reports on it and do other similar SCADA-like things. It is focused on discrete control (IO scanning, soft logic, and HMI). It could be extended to do SCADA-like things (the framework already has database APIs), but it doesn't do them at present. It's open source, so anyone who wants to do that is welcome to go ahead. It's just not my focus for it at this time.

As for your product, I just followed your suggestion and had a look at your web site and I really don't see what your software could add to the system. So far as I can tell, my software already does everything yours does, so adding your stuff to the mix wouldn't turn it into a SCADA.

I'm sure you have a nice product, but I don't see why I would want to spend thousands of dollars on per seat licenses for a web based HMI when I've already got that.

 

In reply to Michael and Curt Wuollet: I have my hands fairly full with my own open source soft logic projects at this time, but there are likely a number of areas of mutual interest we could cooperate on. In particular: communications, HMI, and artwork for screens (e.g. pumps, fans, valves, etc.) are likely things we could both use. You can look at my project (MBLogic) on Sourceforge if you want to see what I've done so far in that area (or just ask, and I can tell you).

What did you have in mind? What type and size of applications are you targeting? I have suggestions about how such a thing could be created, but I will reserve my comments until I know what your target is.


P.S. - Some other existing open source SCADA projects are:

http://pvbrowser.de/ This is a framework to develop your own applications in C++ rather than a stand alone SCADA. The author posts here regularly. You have to know what you're doing to do anything with this software, so it's not for the average SCADA user. Customers are using it though.

http://www.likindoy.org/ This one is also seeing actual commercial use, but I don't know where development is headed at this time.

http://openscada.org/ They have some screen shots, but I can't tell how much they have actually working though. They talk about their releases, but I couldn't find the software.

http://www.free-scada.org/ They've got a nice looking web site, but when I downloaded the software I couldn't figure out how to use it. I don't know what is working and what isn't. It's also MS Windows only. The author posts here occasionally.

 

Writing your own HMI/SCADA solution can be a long and daunting ask. Perhaps you might get the results you need with an Off-The-Shelf solution like ICONICS Genesis64 or Genesis32. These products have Alarming, Trending, and Graphics capabilities, and are OPC enabled. They provide capabilities for remote access via a Web interface for monitoring and controlling the system (Supervisory Control).

Check out www.iconics.com for more information. Or you may contact me directly at [email protected]. I will be pleased to help.

Jon Brown

 

For this wind farm system, consider looking for a system that has:

1. Easy ability to define multiple identical units.

2. Consider a GUI that supports the same screen definition being used for different identical units

3. Consider a base SCADA system that supports other operating systems for stability and security as these are systems that need to be solid.

4. Consider a base SCADA system that has a little history so that you do not find yourself debugging the fundamentals of the system.

Good luck with the project!

Peter Clout
Vista Control Systems

 

Is Iconics free, that is what the original post requested since they were moving away from a costly licensed system.

 

In reply to Michael: I believe that Java is open source (Free Software) now (GPL). I believe that Sun offers it under two licenses. There is the regular GPL license and Sun also sells proprietary licenses to companies (e.g. IBM) who create proprietary derivatives. Linux distros are now packaging it as a result of this change, which has greatly improved their support for Java.

As for how to write the software, I would suggest settling on some ideas about how the thing would work (in general) and what it would do before deciding on what language to write it in.

 

Hey Everyone,

This is the original poster of this thread. I really appreciate everyone's advice.

To give everyone an update, after doing a more thorough examination of our requirements, we have decided to purchase a vendor solution. Most likely it will be an HMI that provides a user interface that we can build on. Hopefully it would have alarm, monitoring, and other basic functionality built it.

On our side, mainly we will need to develop some custom reports, logs, statistical analysis, etc. Potentially we will need to create a communication driver for our specific PLCs and maybe fine tune the database for our needs.

While there are some expensive vendor solutions like Wonderware's Intouch and GE's SCADA, we will probably select a cheaper vendor solution without a lot of bells and whistles. I know a lot of people have mentioned some vendor solutions earlier in this post, so I will take a further look into them.

Thanks again and good luck to those who might be starting up a new open source solution.

 

Sounds like a good plan, keep us posted...

Bill Sturm

Abbeytronics LLC

 

Wes, I see you have been recommended to Indusoft for SCADA development. Indusoft has some significant advantages for Wind SCADA in it's windows based OS and catalog of available i/o for reading data from PLC's and other devices.

Indusoft works with CCS-Inc. on wind SCADA and I can provide you with more info on the offering.

Scott McMahon CCS-Inc. [email protected]

 

Hi Wes,
What type of turbines are in your farm? Which PLC are you currently using and what existing scada is in place? I think I can help you, or at least give you additional resources. We have engineered a 'fix' for some of the older turbines including the Zond 750, Micons, Kenetechs and V27s and V47s. The biggest problem we've seen with most of these older models is the comm. We've installed a hybrid (fiber and smart radio) at one farm that was very reliable.

Drop me an email if you would like to discuss further: [email protected] -Good luck.

 

Hi dear,
yes dear i am interested [in] Open Source SCADA system.
presently i am working in seimens.

 

I didn't know that Java is licensed under GPL.
I have heard that there was a license changing process going on but that they have come so far was a nice surprise.

When it comes to ideas I can say that I have plenty. I fear though that I lack both programming experience and that I have not been in the business long enough.

First of all there should be some sort of "whiteboard" on the net where brainstorming and idea exchanging can take place.

 

In reply to Michael I.: The usual way of brainstorming on the Internet is either mailing lists or wikis. A wiki is the closest thing to a white board, but it's not the best way to get started.

The best thing to do would be to get yourself a gmail address that you intend to use specifically for this project and post it here. Anyone who is interested can then contact you. I would suggest doing this right away while people are still following this topic.

What you do then is just send emails back and forth with everyone on the list getting cc'd. Once you have a direction established, you can register a project at some place like Sourceforge, Google Code, Launchpad, or Berlios. These have wikis, mailing lists, forums, etc.

 

Wes,

First of all we wish you well on your journey of choosing a HMI/SCADA package! Second, let me make it clear that I work for InduSoft (and a big thanks to Walt and Scott at CCS for mentioning us in this post).

Here are some additional things to consider when choosing a HMI/SCADA package for windpower:

1. Scalability: Do you have the need to deploy solutions from Windows CE (on PDAs, mobile phones or Industrial displays), embedded XP, desktop environment (XP, Vista) including "industrial PCs" all the way up to a server type environment all with one package? Your training and experience are valuable assets; don't abandon them just because you have a wind farm today and a "small wind" project next. A package that can work across all Microsoft supported platforms, including scripting and database connectivity, should be evaluated.

2. If you need to log data to a relational database (Oracle, MySQL, MS SQL Server, and more), which one will it be used now and in the future? The operating system you choose today may not be suitable for the next project. Choose software that will not only run on a desktop operating system such as Windows XP or Vista and even Server Editions, but down to Windows CE as well. And as you get into the typically smaller or remote systems that Windows CE can offer, make sure the database you choose is supported by the HMI/SCADA vendor even from an embedded environment like CE.

3. Watch out for "hidden costs". Does the vendor make you pay for extra modules like trending, alarming, recipes or reporting? What about a required support contract? Is there an added cost to support the local language where your system will be deployed? Drivers: InduSoft has over 200 built-in at no extra cost!

4. Connectivity: Not only PLC or your own controller, but the flexibility to support OPC for drivers that aren't built-in yet. What about displaying video to remotely view the wind farm (or catch vandalism)? Displaying information on a mobile phone should be a "must have" as we all know the service staff just sit at their desk eagerly waiting to go on the next service run. What about showing a wind forecast so system adjustments can be scheduled automatically?

5. Remote connectivity: Can the system be updated remotely over the internet? What about over a radio system or satellite link? Can the system email reports to web enabled phones or send reports in XML format as an attachment? And when the link fails, can the system be configured in a "store and forward" mode?

6. If the system doesn't have the built-in functionality in the on screen objects (alarming, trending, buttons, 3D graphics) does the system support a scripting language that will give you the flexibility to do just about anything you need? And, will this scripting language run on all platforms (even in Windows CE)?

7. Ease of configuring the database connection and remote web browser. Some systems can be quite difficult and others make it very easy (and less time consuming).

You can download a full-featured demo. Or, visit www.indusoft.com for more information

Good luck in your decision process.

 

I see InduSoft is listed as a "Legacy" product on Nematron's web site. I assumed Nematron had purchased InduSoft like they did with Intec's Paragon software only to let it waste away.

Peter

(I have a dozen Paragon apps that I need to upgrade to something else. Arg!)