# Solar Power and Industry, was APPS 24vac to 24vdc

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#### Dean Reimer

I thought I'd try to start a new thread for the solar power discussion, since we are a long way from converting AC to DC voltage.

I don't think anyone on this list would dispute that solar power is the ultimate renewable, clean resource. The movement away from fossil fuels is
inevitable, whether due to environmental degradation or resource depletion. However, I think Mr. Shepard has been partaking in too many
mood-altering substances if he really believes that there is a legitimate business case to be made for solar power on an industrial level. There
is no payback at this time, and likely will not be any for another 25-50 years. Period. No top 20 lists will convince anyone otherwise.

What government should be doing in places like California is offering tax credits or incentives to *homeowners* to move to solar power. Taking
large numbers of homes and their A/C units off the grid will free up existing capacity to prevent the brownouts/blackouts and brutal peak-period energy rates.

One other thing. Mr. Shepard in a previous message said that the storage batteries would need to be replaced every 3-5 years. This is
hardly a benign activity to the environment, especially if lead-acid batteries are used.

Dean Reimer

From: "Steven Shepard" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: APPS: 24vac to 24vdc

Troll this.

With a thanks and a nod to Steve Spence, this is contributing material from
the book I am working on. Hope for publication by the end of this year.

Top twenty reason for using solar ....<clip>

B

#### Bob Hogg

Hi -

To the best of my knowledge the US Government has undertaken a tax plan to benifit those who secure an alternate source of energy for home use. I think it is a 10 year plan.

We will soon offer a solar powered "Level Controls" for field applications. Nothing is on our web page but it looks like a striaght forward application using todays technology.

Thanks Bob Hogg
www.almegcontrols.com

J

#### Johan Bengtsson

solar systems. Have large areas of desserts covered with solar panels (preferably built on site, most of the needed raw material is usually at hand - and plenty of it) Put wires to nearest coast or big river, use the energy to split water and distribute the hydrogen.

In the article the idea was car fuel, but the general idea could be used to other purposes as well.

By using hydrogen you could reduce the biggest part of the battery storage need, ok the fuel cells of today need some rare metals in order to work, but what if you in a city burn the hydrogen and run it thru an ordinary turbine and use the "wasted" heat to heat up water for distribution?

Another source of energy I think is too little used is garbage-burning, ok the exhausts have to be cleaned from a lot of polluting things, but would it really be environmentally better to throw away the garbage instead?

I basically agree that solar systems are one of the better future ways of getting energy in a useable form, but not the only one. And all solar systems have one disadvantage - they usually provide power when I don't need it and don't provide power when I need it - and that means the energy have to be stored in some way of another. Lead-acid is one of the easier ways to do that, but perhaps not the best.

/Johan Bengtsson

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L

#### Lynn Linse

I only wish it were so. You can find a rather exhaustive list of "incentive" programs at Home Power magazine (
http://www.homepower.com/stateincentives.htm ).

Unfortunately, the oil/nuclear power industry "invests" 1000x more  in lobbying in Washington than the solar/renewable industry does. Thus, most incentive programs created in the crisis day of the 1970's long ago died.

Most tax incentives are state or city based now - and aimed at users with access to grid power who supplement this with solar/renewable. If you "need
to use solar" (ie: you're 25 miles from the grid or on an oil platform), then you get no help.

Actually, the most "profitable" renewable energy systems today are the co-generation plants (ie: you need steam anyway, so also generate power) or
the 100kW+ fuel-cell systems a plant or factory could use. Neither are as "clean" as solar, but when ROI is the key measure to get funding many of
these system can payback in fewer years.

regards
- Lynn

> ------------Forwarded message---------
> From: Bob Hogg <[email protected]>
>
> To the best of my knowledge the US Government has undertaken
> a tax plan to
> benifit those who secure an alternate source of energy for
> home use. I
> think it is a 10 year plan.

V

#### Vic Ellescas

I strongly agree with Solar Power plus other renewable source such as Windmill-Electric-generators or fuel cells. The concept is analogous to our computer we're using now. Before only big corporations have control of
the big information. Now we have personal computers and hence the word "telecommute" becomes a buzzword. With the help modern automation and eager investors to produce more cheap , re-cyclable, and more efficient solar panels every homes and offices could afford to have their own source of power. A standard output such as 12/24 VDC etc, have to be established for efficiency and compatibility. Electronics and other home appliances have to run on DC source instead of converting solar panel DC to AC then back to DC.
Not unless we want to be dependent on the government and power generators, lets drop the topic.
Good thing water and sewage in not under the influence of big corporations or we're going to have a nasty rolling sewage back-up.
Vic E.
Sverdrup Technlogy
Moffett Field Ca.