Substation automation and system architecture

Hello everyone, Myself into operation & maintenance of a small power plant (60 MW with 3 nos frame-V Gas turbine with Mark-VIe control and our plant always synchronized with national grid). Now in a project of new Gas turbine (again frame -V @ 20 MW), we are being supplied a system of Substation automation & system architecture for display different electrical parameters but without control. As per the document it can save trends/history of set parameters. This is very important for our electrical fault analysis. The system being offered is Siemens make model SICAM (CP-8080). Can anybody guide
(i) How to know that this system can record history of fault of very less duration (like 10 ms) and how long ?
(ii) Will it be able to record trends ( during fault) electrical parameters like current, voltage , frequency etc ( like we get MW/MAVR in DCS of gas turbine ) ?
please guide , thanks
 
Hello everyone, Myself into operation & maintenance of a small power plant (60 MW with 3 nos frame-V Gas turbine with Mark-VIe control and our plant always synchronized with national grid). Now in a project of new Gas turbine (again frame -V @ 20 MW), we are being supplied a system of Substation automation & system architecture for display different electrical parameters but without control. As per the document it can save trends/history of set parameters. This is very important for our electrical fault analysis. The system being offered is Siemens make model SICAM (CP-8080). Can anybody guide
(i) How to know that this system can record history of fault of very less duration (like 10 ms) and how long ?
(ii) Will it be able to record trends ( during fault) electrical parameters like current, voltage , frequency etc ( like we get MW/MAVR in DCS of gas turbine ) ?
please guide , thanks
Hello All
Jagriti,

1-What the OEM manuals saying about faults/alarms recording scan rate /resolution ?
In the manual that I got it is giving some informations about scan rates and alarms/even history managing.....event SMS sending (on I/O & others modules ).
2-In the OEM manual that i got it is not describing how to record trends ( during event/fault /alarm/trip)
Maybe you can get from the original vendor, the Manual which is describing/explaining the informations that you are looking for .

ControlsGuy25.
 
Hello All
Jagriti,

1-What the OEM manuals saying about faults/alarms recording scan rate /resolution ?
In the manual that I got it is giving some informations about scan rates and alarms/even history managing.....event SMS sending (on I/O & others modules ).
2-In the OEM manual that i got it is not describing how to record trends ( during event/fault /alarm/trip)
Maybe you can get from the original vendor, the Manual which is describing/explaining the informations that you are looking for .

ControlsGuy25.
Jagriti,

In the SICAM (CP-8080) manual i got , there is information on some I/O cards/modules about scan rate of 10ms.
That is what i can see in the manual, there is also an Event /History logging reporting , even done by SMS alert.

Hope this can highlight you on some points!

James
 
Hello ControlsGuy and James..
Thanks for the valuable inputs. Can you kindly share the manuals of the SICAM(CP-8080) if possible.
Thanks and regards
 
Hello Jagriti,

Thank you very much for the reply & fededback.
Actually the documents that I got, are SICAM series 8000 from CP-8000, CP-8021, CP-8022, but not CP-8080 .

Also I just get that nice manual on SIMATIC SCC ( which is sharing same HMI of WINCC),in this document it clearly explained that with Simatic SCC , you can do the historian report like following notes extracted from the document:

Archiving system
Historical values or value progressions are stored in process
value archives. Besides process values, WinCC also archives
messages and application data. The archiving occurs in ring
archives in the integrated, high-performance MS SQL Server
database at a rate of up to 10,000 measured values and 100
messages per second. The storage capacity requirements are
very low due to powerful, lossless compression functions.
The WinCC basic system already allows up to 512 archive
tags to be configured. In the final capacity stage, PowerPacks
enable the expansion to up 120,000 tags. A central, optionally
redundant, long-term archiving can be implemented via
a central archive server with the option WinCC/Central
Archive Server.
In the TrendControl, current values (online trend curves), historical
process values, and desired value trend curves can be
depicted in the same trend display. The depiction of messages
already swapped out is possible as well. In doing so, a
customized scaling of the time axis and the value range can
be performed (e.g. scaling in percent). The time and value
axes of the individual trend curves can be moved online by
mouse movement. This function, for example, can be used
for batch comparisons.

1595676384713.png

Figure 3.1/6 Online TrendControl
Reporting and logging system
WinCC has an integrated logging system that you can use to
print data from WinCC or from other applications. This system
prints data that was acquired at runtime in configurable
layouts by means of different types of logs: from message
sequence logs through system message logs and operator
logs up to user reports. Before printing reports, you can save
them as files and preview them on the monitor. WinCC logs
can also contain data from the database and external data in
CSV format as a table or a curve in a log.
See how this SIMATIC/SICAM SCC is powerful hum!


Here some datas/inforamtions you are looking or about faults/trips/alarms scan rate/cycle
SICAM BC
Function overview
Main functions
Designation ANSI code Function Cycle Non-directional Directional
PFO 50/51 Phase-Fault Overcurrent Protection 5 ms 3/1 3/1
PFD 67 Directional Phase-Fault Overcurrent Protection1) 5 ms x
EFO 50N/51N Earth-Fault Overcurrent Protection 5 ms 3/1 3/1
EFD 67N Directional Earth-Fault Overcurrent Protection1) 5 ms x
SEF 64S Directional Sensitive Sarth-Fault Protection1) 5 ms x
IEF 64T Intermittent Earth-Fault Protection 5 ms x x
FOC 50F Fast Overcurrent Protection 2.5 ms x x
NPS 46 Negative Phase Sequence Overcurrent Protection 5 ms 1/1 1/1
UOV 27/59 Phase Under- and Overvoltage Protection1) 5 ms x x
ROV 59N Residual Overvoltage Protection1) 5 ms x x
TOL 49 Thermal Overload Protection 100 ms x x
UUF 81 Over- and Underfrequency Protection 5 ms x x
1) AI-5399 necessary n/m n taps UMZ, m taps AMZ
Auxiliary functions
Designation ANSI code Function Cycle Non-directional Directional
AR 79 Auto-Reclose Function 5 ms x x
SYN 25 Synchrocheck1) 10 ms x x
F_LOC 21FL Fault Locator1) spontaneous x x
RUSH 68 Inrush Restraint2) 2.5 ms x x
CBF 50BF Circuit-Breaker Failure Protection 2.5 ms x x
SOTF 50HS Switch-On to Fault 2.5 ms x x
DYN Cold Load Pickup 2.5 ms x x
TCS 74TC Trip-Circuit Supervision 100 ms x x
LOGIC Programmable Protection Logic 2.5 ms x x
CHECK Transformer Monitoring3) 2.5 ms


You can share an email as documents files are too volumous for attaching them here.

I am sure that I can give you the answers you are looking for .

I am always glad to give support/help to nice people as you Jagriti!
Assuming that VENDOR SUPLLY the SICAM SCC HMI.

Drop me a private message and we can have a discussion on the issue and know each other better!

ControlsGuy25.
 
Hello Jagriti,

Thank you very much for the reply & fededback.
Actually the documents that I got, are SICAM series 8000 from CP-8000, CP-8021, CP-8022, but not CP-8080 .

Also I just get that nice manual on SIMATIC SCC ( which is sharing same HMI of WINCC),in this document it clearly explained that with Simatic SCC , you can do the historian report like following notes extracted from the document:

Archiving system
Historical values or value progressions are stored in process
value archives. Besides process values, WinCC also archives
messages and application data. The archiving occurs in ring
archives in the integrated, high-performance MS SQL Server
database at a rate of up to 10,000 measured values and 100
messages per second. The storage capacity requirements are
very low due to powerful, lossless compression functions.
The WinCC basic system already allows up to 512 archive
tags to be configured. In the final capacity stage, PowerPacks
enable the expansion to up 120,000 tags. A central, optionally
redundant, long-term archiving can be implemented via
a central archive server with the option WinCC/Central
Archive Server.
In the TrendControl, current values (online trend curves), historical
process values, and desired value trend curves can be
depicted in the same trend display. The depiction of messages
already swapped out is possible as well. In doing so, a
customized scaling of the time axis and the value range can
be performed (e.g. scaling in percent). The time and value
axes of the individual trend curves can be moved online by
mouse movement. This function, for example, can be used
for batch comparisons.

View attachment 424

Figure 3.1/6 Online TrendControl
Reporting and logging system
WinCC has an integrated logging system that you can use to
print data from WinCC or from other applications. This system
prints data that was acquired at runtime in configurable
layouts by means of different types of logs: from message
sequence logs through system message logs and operator
logs up to user reports. Before printing reports, you can save
them as files and preview them on the monitor. WinCC logs
can also contain data from the database and external data in
CSV format as a table or a curve in a log.
See how this SIMATIC/SICAM SCC is powerful hum!


Here some datas/inforamtions you are looking or about faults/trips/alarms scan rate/cycle
SICAM BC
Function overview
Main functions
Designation ANSI code Function Cycle Non-directional Directional
PFO 50/51 Phase-Fault Overcurrent Protection 5 ms 3/1 3/1
PFD 67 Directional Phase-Fault Overcurrent Protection1) 5 ms x
EFO 50N/51N Earth-Fault Overcurrent Protection 5 ms 3/1 3/1
EFD 67N Directional Earth-Fault Overcurrent Protection1) 5 ms x
SEF 64S Directional Sensitive Sarth-Fault Protection1) 5 ms x
IEF 64T Intermittent Earth-Fault Protection 5 ms x x
FOC 50F Fast Overcurrent Protection 2.5 ms x x
NPS 46 Negative Phase Sequence Overcurrent Protection 5 ms 1/1 1/1
UOV 27/59 Phase Under- and Overvoltage Protection1) 5 ms x x
ROV 59N Residual Overvoltage Protection1) 5 ms x x
TOL 49 Thermal Overload Protection 100 ms x x
UUF 81 Over- and Underfrequency Protection 5 ms x x
1) AI-5399 necessary n/m n taps UMZ, m taps AMZ
Auxiliary functions
Designation ANSI code Function Cycle Non-directional Directional
AR 79 Auto-Reclose Function 5 ms x x
SYN 25 Synchrocheck1) 10 ms x x
F_LOC 21FL Fault Locator1) spontaneous x x
RUSH 68 Inrush Restraint2) 2.5 ms x x
CBF 50BF Circuit-Breaker Failure Protection 2.5 ms x x
SOTF 50HS Switch-On to Fault 2.5 ms x x
DYN Cold Load Pickup 2.5 ms x x
TCS 74TC Trip-Circuit Supervision 100 ms x x
LOGIC Programmable Protection Logic 2.5 ms x x
CHECK Transformer Monitoring3) 2.5 ms


You can share an email as documents files are too volumous for attaching them here.

I am sure that I can give you the answers you are looking for .

I am always glad to give support/help to nice people as you Jagriti!
Assuming that VENDOR SUPLLY the SICAM SCC HMI.

Drop me a private message and we can have a discussion on the issue and know each other better!

ControlsGuy25.
Jagriti,

Would you pleaze give comments /feedback on my last post here.

ControlsGuy25.
 
Hello ControlsGuy25...
This is great. Thank you so much for this...will definitely help... After commissioning we will get detailed manuals etc, if any further info is required will contact ...sure
regards
 
Hello ControlsGuy25...
This is great. Thank you so much for this...will definitely help... After commissioning we will get detailed manuals etc, if any further info is required will contact ...sure
regards
Hello Jagriti...

Thank you for your feedback! That's much appreciated, and reflect your good attitude and behaviour!

Do not hesitate to contact me, In case that I can support & I will do my best!

Hoping that commissionning activities at your site are going smoothly.

It is always grateful to see that I can support/help, gentlemen and learn also from each other.

Regards,
James.
 
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