Wire marking methods

J

Thread Starter

Joe Manns

A local panel shop is constructing a small water tower control panel for me that's about 80% complete. For the most part it's a beautiful job, except for one thing - the wire markers are standard Brady translucent vinyl tape instead of the heat-shrink sleeve markers that were specified and bid on. Oops.

Yes, the panel shop will replace all the wire markers with sleeves for free if pressed, but I don't want to make them re-wire the whole panel using the sleeves unless there's a real benefit to doing so.

The heat-shrink sleeve part of the specification was a result of problems with old vinyl tape markers falling off years ago. The panel shop supervisor tells me that the adhesives and materials are now much better and will not fall off, and that the heat-shrink sleeves I had specified really don't perform any better unless the marking is 'burned' in, rather than printed on (which can smear)

Is the panel shop supervisor showing me the light, or just trying to avoid having to re-wire the panel?

Does someone have guidlines for best wire marking methods for different environments, font and label sizes, regulations, and such?

Best regards,

Joe Manns
 
C

Chris Powell

Joe,
The panel shop manager is feeding you a line. The Brady vinyl labels are notorious for peeling off even before the project even leaves our shop, as we use them frequently. In a harsher environement, such as an outdoor water tower control panel, I recommend Panduit's PCMB or PCM labels. They come in a variety of legends, but I don't think they can be printed for custom applications. They are a canvas type material with excellent adhesive backing. They come with a corresponding terminal block marker. Some of the legend configurations include:

PCMB-1 - 45ea - 0-9

PCMB-2 - 10ea - A-Z, 0-15, +, -, /

PCMB-3 - 10ea - 1-45

PCMB-4 - 150ea - 1, 2, 3

PCMB-5 - 150ea - A, B, C

PCMB-6 - 150ea - T1, T2, T3

PCMB-7 - 150ea - L1, L2, L3

PCMB-8 - 6ea - 1-15

- 4ea - 16-90

- 2ea - A-Z, +, -, /

PCMB-9 - 45ea - 1, 2, 3, A, B, C

- 30ea - L1, L2, L3, T1, T2, T3

PCMB-10 - 45ea - (10) NEMA colors

PCMB-13 - Blank, write-on, POS, NEG, GND, NEUT, +, -, AC, DC

and there are others...I think they're available from Carlton-Bates
("www.carlton-bates.com":http://www.carlton-bates.com ) or here:
"dyn.e-olander.com/catalog/index.asp?":http://dyn.e-olander.com/catalog/index.asp?

"dyn.e-olander.com/cata
log/model.asp?Model=3D360&PageNumber=3D8":http://dyn.e-olander.com/cata
log/model.asp?Model=3D360&PageNumber=3D8

OR just do a google search for 'panduit' and 'pcm'. Several suppliers come up.

Chris Powell
Glendale, Arizona, USA
 
Hi Joe

Have a look at the Brady sleeve markers. The PVC sleeves are slid onto the cable and the markers are printed on a printer and then slide into the sleeves. If the number needs to be raplaced, it is a simple matter to print a new marker and slide it into the sleeve, sliding out the old one at the same time. We have been using this type of marker for five years with great success.

Regards
Bob
 
P

Pat McGinnis

Joe,

Of course, he is trying to avoid re-wiring the panel. The wrap-arounds are no match for typed, slip-on markers. Yes, non-permatized slipons can smear if handled with oily fingers. However, wrap-arounds come loose with age and if oil and/or heat are involved. You can be a "good-guy" and let them make more profit for their company, or get your company what they are paying for.

> Does someone have guidlines for best wire marking methods for different environments, font and label sizes, regulations, and such?

The "best" wire markers, bar-none, are Raychem ... Especially after permatized with UV and heat shrinked in-place. However, just like everything else, you gets what you pay for.
 
G
John,

My experience is that the vinyl tape labels work great IF they are applied properly. The adhesive on the outer wrap cannot be touched, or oils from fingers will compromise the adhesive. I always keep a dry rag handy to wipe my fingers when I am using adhesive labels. Consequently, they are useless to apply in the field.

Ribbon quality is also very important. The clear, but cloudy, outer wrap makes it difficult to read if the ink is not dark enough. Sleeve labels are always preferred unless there is high temperature. The print quality for sleeves is dependent on the printer. Most manufacturers make varying quality printers. Sleeves do not come out well on portable printers. Special inks must be used to prevent smearing and resistance to oils.

If you specified sleeves, you should insist on sleeves. I’ve made the mistake of not following a customer's spec and learned to pay attention. It costs a lot of time/money to correct mistakes. This mistake will probably cost the panel shop any profits for the job. If they are willing to correct the mistake, then I would consider using them again for future projects. If they put up a fight, let them know that they will not be considered again.

Glen
 
T
Heat shrink sleeves are superior. But they should be handled correctly and of a high quality to avoid smearing. We shrink the markers after installation of the wire, that way it can be slid out of the way while handling the wire end, and then all the markers can be lined up for a neat appearance and turned so the number is visible.

I use a foil shield behing the wires to protect the duct from the heat and shrink the markers fully without discoloration. It won't take very long for a panel shop to slip the sleeves on if they use a power screwdriver. IMO, the panel shop needs to follow specification. We use Brady IDPro sleeves for field work and Critchley sleeves for shop work. The Brady sleeves are OK, and the IDPro's portability is very handy. It smears though if handled too much so you have to be careful handling them before they are shrunk. The Critchley sleeves are much higher quality and are much less prone to smearing, but the printer setup is more costly.
 
S

Steve Myres, PE

I once worked in a shop where it was our normal practice to use the adhesive tape type markers, and we almost finished a large project before noticing the customer has specified sleeves. We found that adding a piece of clear heat shrink over the existing marker was satisfactory to the customer, and easier for us than changing all the existing labels. Maybe this would be a viable option for your situation, as well.
 
S

Scott McLean

Joe,

I agree with Chris Powell's assessment - sounds like damage control. Having been there before, I will submit that sleeve type markers that are marked with a heat transfer method will be readable in harsh environments the longest, and will not slip off. The vinyl type you refer to, such as Brady's WML-502 series, is fine for panels not subjected to extremes. I've seen these labels look original after 5 years or better. If your spec is at issue, it is incumbent on the panel shop to meet it if they want to get paid, plain and simple.

Scott McLean, ITW/United Silicone
 
B
My experience with any type of adhesive-based marker is that proper installation procedures makes a big difference. Brady tape markers will do a great job if the label stock is fresh (adhesives degrade over time), stored in a cool and clean environment, and the wiring technician has kept his hands clean and free of oil.

We had a similar problem with 3M label tape a few years ago, but found that (once they got the process straight) following the above made all the
difference.

I've used heat-shrink labeling as well, and have seen OEM panels built using it, and have found that the overall time to print, place, and shrink one is about 1-1/2 times greater than using an adhesive type (although, properly done, the results are very good indeed). Some of the OEM panels used heat-shrink sleeves, but never bother to shrink them (the time-consuming part of the process) so the net result was worse than using tape markers.

A good balance can be obtained by using the small Brady printer-based wiremarkers intended for field use, and using label stock which has a clear protective window. When this is rolled over the printed portion smearing is almost eliminated (unless the wire gets soaked in solvents or oil, in which case insulation-burning labeling is the only safe bet).

Bob
 
B
> A local panel shop is constructing a small water tower control panel for
> me that's about 80% complete. For the most part it's a beautiful job,
> except for one thing - the wire markers are standard Brady translucent
> vinyl tape instead of the heat-shrink sleeve markers that were specified
> and bid on. Oops.
>
> Yes, the panel shop will replace all the wire markers with sleeves for
> free if pressed, but I don't want to make them re-wire the whole panel
> using the sleeves unless there's a real benefit to doing so.
>
> The heat-shrink sleeve part of the specification was a result of
> problems with old vinyl tape markers falling off years ago. The panel
> shop supervisor tells me that the adhesives and materials are now much
> better and will not fall off, and that the heat-shrink sleeves I had
> specified really don't perform any better unless the marking is 'burned'
> in, rather than printed on (which can smear)

I'd tend to agree with him. My experience with the printed on heat shrink labels is they tend to smear worse then the printed on self-laminating
markers. The self-laminating labels do perform very well in most cases. They are not as good as the heat shrink ones if the labels will get oil or
coolant on them though. Its a judgement call.

> Is the panel shop supervisor showing me the light, or just trying to
> avoid having to re-wire the panel?

Probably a little of both. Keep in mind you may have to process a variance since its a government project, if the spec actually called for heat shrink markers. That might end up costing you more to process than it would them to change the markers.

> Does someone have guidlines for best wire marking methods for different
> environments, font and label sizes, regulations, and such?

I don't know that there are any.

Bob Peterson
 
S
I noticed this thread coming up in Google searches for "wire marking" but the information about "sleeves" is very much out of date.

Shrink tube sleeves for wire marking are still the best way to have permanent wire markers under all conditions. However, shrink tube sleeves are now typically printed by thermal transfer printers, making the printing durable, weather resistant, and fade resistant. I work as a consultant for DuraLabel, and can only speak for their products. Unlike what was mentioned ten years ago in this thread, the printing will not smear nor wipe off. The "ink" is thermally bonded to the wire marker.

And, as stated in this thread, if you specify shrink tube wire markers, be sure to get shrink tube wire markers.
 
Like the other comment, I also came across this while doing a google search and found it very outdated.

Partex Marking Systems has single character markers made of PVC. The material itself is made to last and the marking method on most of the standard products is hot stamped which makes them legible for many years.

They're tested to overseas standards and test results including exposure to oil, salt water, chemicals, etc...... are available.

It's an outstanding option and worth considering.
 
Top