TOP 10 list of Best and Worst HMI & SCADA

  • Thread starter Luciano Dell'Orfano - RTS Argentina
  • Start date
Among modern HMI software from major automation companies, I'd have to rank WinCC SCADA 7.x the worst. Which is strange, because I don't mind working with other flavors of WinCC, especially within the latest version of TIA Portal. I don't mind the quirks of WonderWare, or FactoryTalk.

Here is a list of my pet peeves:

- data export is VERY slow

- data export is often poorly formatted. ie, alarm message export is a non-conforming CSV that needs to be manually edited in Notepad before importing it back in. Excel can read it, but Excel fixes the formatting error when it saves.

- completely useless cross-reference utility. Worse than not having a cross reference function at all.

- Unless you're scripting, it's limited to just one action per event

- bizarre rules like disabling the script editor if your development station doesn't have the same PC name as the destination station

- unreliable... Clients frequently drop and reestablish connections to the server, even with direct CAT5 connection. Siemens can't solve it

- features that simply don't work, like local variables in a client/server setup. you check the box to make it local, no change in behavior

- alarming interface is complex to the point of absurdity

- alarm export/import can't be done for analog alarms, only digital. You can export/import the MESSAGES, but you can't set up thresholds except one at a time through the interface, and each one is a lot of mouse clicks... no way to speed up development of this with excel like you can with digital alarms

- poor integration with Siemens hardware... Aside from not being symbolic (which TIA pretends to be, this doesn't even pretend), it has no way to import tag lists from the controller, and when you set up words and dwords for alarm bits, it reverses the byte order (no way to correct this, you just have to know and account for it manually). just makes you want to pull your hair out when you have 8000 alarms and can't dedicate booleans to it because tag count would go through the roof.

- graphical editor is clumsy, need too many clicks to reach common features.

- worst trending control of any HMI I've ever worked with. I will say that it's also the most flexible trending system I've ever worked with... but that's not a good thing when you have operators who want to see data, not get a PhD in Siemens trending.

- bizarre set up for audible alarms. Another situation where they make it ultra-flexible, but ultra-clumsy so it's hard to even understand, much less configure
 
>13 year old post, and WinCC still among worst HMI xD

>Some things never change!

13 Years Later... And I think the worst software could still not be identified.

I guess its not about the most used software... I've all around the world and it all depends. America, Central America, Mexico, Colombia and these places Love the Rockwell products. Where European Countries love to use Siemens. So i Guess its not a matter of Wich software is the best or the worst. Its about where the product is from. That way it makes Support easier when needed.

I have had issues where Rockwell support could not help, i have had Siemens give up on me and sending the problem off to Germany with no feedback either. Also had some guys from Schneider and Wonderware scratching their heads.

In my opinion the best and worst software only depends on the programmers choice and capabilities. We all have our own way of doing things and doing our system designs. Some software makes some design skills easier than others and therefor I would say that this conversation will still be here for the next 13-20 years and will still be unsolved.

I try not to judge but to give my client the best possible system that could be developed with his/her choice.
 
So far, the top 3 SCADA i have used are Schnieder (citect/scadapack), iconics, wonderware due to great capabilitie., however the worse I think I encounter more than winCC is ABB due to lack of flexibility and as said by another, the backup feature. The first SCADA that frustrates me while working.
 
J

James LeFevre P.E.

We are a Schneider and AB integrator. Have used WW but will only do so when the customer demands it. Have done 2 Citec installs and have had enough of that. Never seen or heard of any of the others.

All customers are crying for iPad and cross platform browser interfaces. Most customers want cross platform SCADA solutions. We are currently using Mango and are loving it. Works on Macs and Linux and Windows. Standard Web Browser interface on any device.
 
Yes, this is true. Of all the SCADA I have worked with, this is the SCADA I wish I would never to handle again. :)

> I think the worst is ABB COMPACT HMI. When you are In
> development stage It is very slow, Tag Generation do not
> work properly, backup system does not work, OPC connection
> is very slow, in conclusion I hope not to use it again.
 
I had a great time in using IntegraXor SCADA.

The main reason I like it is because it's so simple for me to configure and integrate with my system. Basically I just install their SCADA software (it's only a single executable file), then configure, and run, that's it. Besides, it's a web SCADA, so I only require a web browser to view my HMI.
 
National Instruments Lookout/Labview is arguably becoming one of the more progressive HMI programs. They are following the example set by Microsoft decades ago by putting their software in collegiate engineering programs. My nephew worked with us for a few years during the summer and learned the program pretty well. He went to the Citadel for electrical engineering and they were using Labview in all of his automation labs.

It has its drawbacks but so do all the others. As far a price and ease of use, its one of the best around.
 
D
>> Nothing like a reply to an 8 YO post.
>
>Try this xD
>
>But I think it's a never ending discussion...

I think you're right.
 
I'm a control systems engineer of 6.5 years and have only worked with some of the larger flavours of SCADA (at least in Australia), my experience in brackets: Ignition (moderate-advanced), CitectSCADA(expert), FactoryTalk View SE/ME (expert), iFIX (monkey labour work only), ClearSCADA (expert), Cimplicity, Adroit (pulling a project apart only for conversion).

Sorry in advance, this could be long..

The worst two SCADA packages that I've used are most definitely FactoryTalk View SE/ME and Cimplicity.

I have never sworn so much in my life as when I'm using FactoryTalk. Their implementation of template objects (global objects) and parameters has to be the worst imaginable. For example, in order to use numbers passed into parameters into a page or template object as actual numbers, you need to use: "IF 1==1 THEN #1*#2 ELSE 0". Where #1 and #2 are references to two parameters. Otherwise, FactoryTalk assumes that the parameters are tags. Of course that's not documented anywhere and was stumbled upon by trial and error.

- Parameters are indexed, not named E.g. #1, #2, instead of Tag1, Tag2

- Parameters apply globally, not just to the page or popup you're on. And because the parameters are just numbers, this means you can't use #1 and #1 on page and popup

- moving an object MUST involve the mouse, you can't just use keys

- you can't nest template objects

- there's no abs() function

- the modulus function (%) cannot be used with expressions E.g. sqrt(x) % 1 will not work

- the list of functions available is pathetic, there are maybe 20 or so, and that includes maths functions. Compare that to Citect and Ignition's 200+.

- Project load time is incredible, 5-10mins for large projects, 2+mins for smaller projects. Compare that to ANY other SCADA.

- You can't access tag properties such as eng min/max, units, format, etc. so that these can be used within expressions.

- The tag export/import function asks you every time what project type (SE or ME) and which project to export/import tags from/to, despite having the project OPEN ALREADY(!)...

- The trend chart looks horrid and is even more horrid to use. CitectSCADA has probably the nicest trends I've seen, followed closely by Ignition's.

- Development environment is licensed. I concede, most are. Citect, Ignition, and to an extent ClearSCADA's are free.

- There is no central location to diagnose issues from. Ignition's management and diagnostic tool is outstanding.

- NEVER use Microsoft ActiveX components (i.e. from mscomctl2.ocx) on a page. Changing versions of FT will install different copies of these which will then invalidate the objects on the pages.

I could go on.. The takeaway is that FactoryTalk should only be used for small projects that require VERY basic pages and content.

Cimplicity is a misnomer; Complexity is so much more appropriate. Its ability to ruin your life should never be underestimated. Do not take comms to PLCs for granted with this product, as it will be the bane of your life.
 
Oops, I got carried away with the worst offenders and forgot the best.

The best in my opinion, is Ignition by Inductive Automation.
It's:
- fast to install

- it has a SQL backbone

- has fantastic status and diagnostics tools

- it's modern and designed from the ground up with security in mind

- it's web-based and launched (using Java)

- supports multiple concurrent developers

- live-value development environment, meaning much faster development and error-finding

- highly-customisable

- modular licensing scheme

- vector graphics with support for raster as well

- resolution-independent pages that can be made to adapt to different resolution monitors the SCADA is displayed on.

- Central and super fast project update rollout (no compiling project or manual processes to update the project on multiple clients and servers)

- the list goes on...

Citect would probably be my runner up, albeit much further behind in technology. I just find Citect a less of a pain in the arse than of the other choices :/
 
J

James Ingraham

> - moving an object MUST involve the mouse, you can't just use keys

Actually, you can, but it's odd. If you position your mouse over a selected object(s), pressing the "Shift" key is equivalent to holding the mouse button down. Then you can use the arrow keys to move the object(s).

Otherwise, my feelings on FTView are similar.

-James Ingraham
Sage Automation, Inc.
 
True Story

My Wife and I were traveling back from New Zealand. Before takeoff the Stewardess was having trouble getting the inflight entertainment system to operate. Eventually she came on the PA and said "Sorry we are just going to have to call Rockwell Support."

My wife responded "Jesus, I hope this plane is not fly-by wire."
 
B
FTViewSE has stuff going for it but there are maddening things as well.

I have never especially liked the ability to scale inside a tag. The number should be what it is in the PLC. It greatly simplifies the code if 100 means 100 and not 100,000 or 0.01.

You can create tag folders that will do all that you want the tag structure from other products to do, and then some.

Most people using FTVSE are not using tags anyway. They are using direct addresses. I use the HMI tags for descriptive info about the direct addresses such as units, description, etc. I think I may well switch to putting this stuff in the PLC in a structure and see if that works better.

Global objects do have some quirks but used appropriately can dramatically reduce your work and testing.

I truly hate that AB abandoned the old database format they used for data logging in RSView32. It was directly importable into excel and made for very easy and quick data analysis. The new native format cannot be read directly and they seem to want you to use SQL. What a waste. I am not a database programmer. I can understand they wanted to incorporate the latest buzz words into the product but why scrap something that worked so well in favor os something that does not work as well for most uses and requires additional training to use?

There also seem to be a lot of quirks associated with online editing. It mostly works but every now and then something strange happens.
 
Hi,

I agree with you. You can try vijeo XD 3.0 software of Schneider Electric. It has all whatever you have mentioned scripting, data base and many more.
 
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