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Mark V <C> Additional Analog Inputs
Adding additional IO on the optional <C> TCCB location 3 results in no results.

Our Mark V rev B contains the optional TCCB card in location 3. I was hoping to add three additional analog inputs by modifying the io configuration, io.asg and longname.dat and setting BJ1, BJ2 and BJ3 jumpers on the TBCB board (using C_MAI_15, 16 and 17).

The iocfg_c.api was downloaded to <C> only and <C> core was rebooted after enabling the i/o configuration and setting the ranges with the appropriate scaling. After adding the points in Cimplicity and graphics, the HMI was rebooted. There is no logic associated as this is for informational purposes only (ie cimplicity graphics data).

I have power for the transmitters but the Mark V is not indicating the ma return as seen in the diagnostic counters and the points table in Cimplicity. I've done this same thing for two transmitters on the CTBA card with no issues.

Technically I was adding five transmitters but it is these three that have not been successful. I suspect there is something I am missing for the optional hardware. Maybe something to enable its use?

I would appreciate any insight anyone could offer.

Regards,
Jack

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Jack,

I suspect everything is working correctly--BUT, the DIAGC.DAT file does not match the card/PROM revisions for the Mark V which is why it's not working on the DIAGC display.

Have you tried the Demand Display?

Have you run MK5MAKE.BAT and then re-booted the HMI (or, restarted TCI)? The signal names you "added" in IO.ASG have to get into UNITDATA.DAT and from there they have to get into HMI RAM and also into the CIMPLICITY project. (Isn't this fun???)

You don't need to compile the CSP, and you really don't even need to run the Table Compiler or the Alarm Listing program (all of which MK5MAKE.BAT does). You just need to run the first exectuables in MK5MAKE.BAT, in the proper order, to get the signal names into UNITDATA.DAT so they can be loaded into HMI RAM when TCI starts, and that CIMPLICITY Workbench can recognize them. (It's presumed you're using a more recent version of CIMPLICITY; if not, it might be Signal Manager. Isn't this fun???)

Do you have a mA simulator you can connect to the Mark V to test the inputs? (It needs to be set to simulate a two-wire (I presume it's a two-wire configuration you're using) simulator that is powered by the Mark V.) That way you could vary the current in the circuit as you check to see if everything's working.

And, using a Demand Display (it's really not that hard!) will let you know that TCI is communicating with the Mark V and that the Mark V is seeing the changing current/signal, and to check scaling. Once that's all working, you can then tackle why it's not getting to CIMPLICITY. And you're on your own at that point; there's just too friggin' many versions of TCI and CIMBRIDGE and CIMPLICITY--and if you've got the newest GE Mark V HMIs which run ControlST/WorkstationST, well, that's another kettle of (stinky) fish.

About the only other thing I could think of would be that there's a problem with the cable that connects the I/O terminal board to the TCCB. Or, a problem with the TCCB, or the I/O terminal board (I forget which one it is; sorry).

Hope this helps! Please write to let us know how you fare in resolving the issue.

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Thanks for your help,

I did run MK5MAKE and rebooted HMI. Verified UNITDATA.DAT contained the 5 new signals with the appropriate scaling. Cimplicity is seeing a value of 0 for the signals on the TBCB board and actual values on the CTBA board. This indicates that the points data table in Cimplicity is correct.

We took the TBCB/TCCB ribbon cable from another unit with the same results. I believe the JHH cable passes the signals from the analog inputs and the JII transports the RTD information (Appendix D-8). We have also swapped the TCCB board (optional) with another unit after swapping EPROMS. The TCCB in location 3 have been installed since commissioning in 2003 but no terminations were used.

We have simulated the two wire transmitters with comparable results with those landed on the CTBA but remain at zero for those on the TBCB.

The documentation repeatedly mentions that this is optional equipment. It appears as though there may be a configuration setting to enable this. But I have no idea where or how?

Thanks,
Jack

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gilariver Jack,

A "standard" Mark V did not include the TCCB--but when it was available as an option.

I presume you are configuring the input from the <C> (or <B>) TCCB target (button) of the I/O Configurator. Are there other I/O connected to that card that are working? (Sorry; I haven't access to any I/O Configurator screens at this writing, and I can't recall what other I/O could be connected to a TCCB. T/Cs?)

I would have to believe the problem is most likely related to the TCCB card configuration file not matching the card/PROM version--something that was EXTREMELY common in lots of Mark Vs. Having said that, if there is other I/O connected to the TCCB that is working, that doesn't explain fit that theory....

Are you sure the PROM revision number from the TCCB card matches the PROM revision number in the I/O Configurator for the TCCB card? DO NOT trust what the CARD_ID.exe application tells you for the PROM revision number! You must read the label on the PROM(s) and convert the last two alpha characters to the PROM revision level. (For example, if the PROM part number on the label reads TCCBxxxxxxCD, the last two characters are the third and fourth characters of the English alphabet--so CD translates to Major Revision 3, Minor Revision 4, or 3.4.)

There are LOTS of Mark Vs at Gila River; have you tried this on any other Mark Vs?

Have you use the Demand Display to try to view the inputs? The Demand Display does NOT use CIMPLICITY, but rather uses TCI directly to get data from the Mark V. It's easy to add the points to any existing Demand Display or to create a new one. It's the easiest way to see if the HMI is getting the data, before it gets sent to CIMPLICITY.

And, again--if the TCCB card configuration file doesn't match the as-installed TCCB card/PROM revisions there can be problems. The card configuration files are (should be!) found in the PROM subdirectory. They are ASCII text files which can be easily opened using MS-Notepad (when closing MS-Notepad, if it asks if you want to save any changes--JUST SAY NO!). Many times the notes in the "header" comments at the top of the file will have information about what cards/PROMs the file supports; sometimes it's found in comments later in the file (consistently inconsistent). Make sure the configuration file supports BOTH the card revision, and the PROM revision.

As far as "enabling" optional cards, they are enabled when they are present and connected to the I/O terminal boards and to the SLCC/SDCC cards (usually via the 3PL cable, if I recall correctly), have power, and the card target appears in the appropriate menu of the I/O Configurator. So, since the TCCB is in <C> (not <D>, right?), it should be in the <C> or <B> section of the I/O Configurator. And the background color of the TCCB card target on the <C> or <B> menu must match the other card target background colors (if it doesn't, then there's something amiss with the TCCB card configuration file or the way the I/O Configurator was configured when the TCCB card was installed or upgraded.)

As far as mA inputs go, I think there is a "USED" Column field on each line for their configuration which one enters YES or NO. NO means the input is disabled (and inputs can be disabled even if the card is working properly). When you make any changes in the I/O Configurator fields for any card, you have to click on 'Save Changes' at the bottom of the card display before leaving the display! If, after you click on 'Save Changes' any background field color on the display is yellow or purple that means the change wasn't accepted. All the fields have to have the same background color after clicking on 'Save Changes' for the changes to be ultimately saved.

Once you have all of the field background colors on the display where you made the changes the same (meaning the changes were accepted by that card), then you have to click on 'Exit' to return to the main display of the I/O Configurator, and click on 'List Screens', 'List Parms' and 'Save and Exit' to make the final permanent change to the IOCFG_C.AP1 file. Then download the I/O Configuration to <C>, and re-boot <C> (using the power switch in the <PD> core).

Would you please list what you have provided for each of the fields for the three TCCB mA inputs? (Open ASCII text I/O Configurator Screens file created when you clicked on 'List Screens' (I can't recall the name of the file, but it's date/time stamp should match the date/time when you clicked on 'List Screens') using MS-Notepad and you can then select and copy the three lines to the MS-Clipboard and past them in a response to this thread.) And, tell us what scale code/type you used for the three signals (in IO.ASG) (you can copy and past those three lines from IO.ASG to the response, also).

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These are great inputs and the investigation makes sense. I forgot to mention that we performed TIL-1480 on 4/19/2017 then made the changes to add the 5 additional transmitters on 5/30/2017. TIL-1480 kit received from GE contained no upgrades to TCCB. So the U8 and U9 196 Eproms were labelled TCCBF1BDC which corresponded with revision 4.3 in the io configurator and the TCCBDCFG.DAT prom file. The U58 and U59 320 Eproms were labelled TCCBF2BDA which corresponded with revision 4.1 in the io confgurator. The card and PROM revisions compared to actual EProm labels. The TCCB card indicates A7.

I have tried the DEMAND display which indicates zero for the three transmitters added to TCCB but actual values on the two added on TCCA. All five transmitters indicate the correct engineering units.

There were no analog inputs on TBCB (TCCB) prior to adding these three.

We first configured unit3B with these results then unit1A with the same results. You are correct we have eight 7FAs and four Dlls with Mark V rev B.

I actually verified that the iocfg_c.ap1 file was downloaded by performing an eeprom check of the C core. The modified date and time matched that of what was complied by the io configurator. I did follow the correct procedure when editing in the io configurator. But I appreciate that you are leaving no stone unturned. I also knew that recompiling the CSP was pointless but it was an act of desperation, lol.

Thanks for the time that you have already spent reviewing this issue. I will submit another post with the IO assignment file and io configuration list.

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Below is the IO.ASG for <C> core and relevant parts of io configuration list to due character limits.


;
;
; I/O Assignment file for PLC DEVELOPMENT HOLDINGS
; GILA RIVER
; ARIZONA
; VSV003
; GR0695
; 180269508
; MURTHY UDHATA
;
; 01/07/02
;
;
; Created from Template 017 Revision: 00
;
;
;TCTG APPLICATIONS (GAS)


C_C_MAI12 AFPET DPH2O ;C -CTBA-070 Exhaust Pressure Trip Transmitter [96ET]
C_C_MAI13 96HQT PRESM ;C -CTBA-073 Hydraulic Trip Oil Pressure [96HQT]
C_C_MAI14 96HQ PRESS ;C -CTBA-076 Hydraulic Supply Oil Pressure [96HQ]
C_C_RTD01 DTGSF1 TC ;C -TBCA-001 Generator temp - stator coupling end [DT-GSF-1]

C_C_MAI15 96QA1 PRESM ;C -TBCB-001 Bearing Header Oil Pressure [96QA1]
C_C_MAI16 96HQ1 PRESH ;C -TBCB-004 Bearing Lift Oil Pressure [96HQ1]
C_C_MAI17 96QA2 PRESM ;C -TBCB-007 Bearing Feed Oil Pressure [96QA2]
C_C_MAI18 C_C_MAI18 CNT15 ;C -TBCB-010 []

Page 1 <C> Card Socket Definitions Wed Jun 28 13:32:21 2017


TCCA Card Definition - Socket 1 - Screen 1/7


ePROM Revision Information:

Major Rev: 4

Minor Rev: 6



TCCA Card Definition - Socket 1 - Screen 4/7

Milliamp Input Definitions 1 - 8

Signal CDB value CDB value CDB value Enable Enable
in use Full Scale at 4 mA at 20 mA Low diag High diag
------- ---------- --------- --------- -------- ---------
Signal 1: YES 64 0.0 60.0 NO NO
Signal 2: YES 64 0.0 60.0 NO NO

Signal 3: YES 512 0.0 30.0 NO NO
Signal 4: YES 2048 0.0 100.0 NO NO

Signal 5: YES 976 0.0 100.0 NO NO
Signal 6: YES 976 0.0 800.0 NO NO

Signal 7: YES 128 10.0 25.0 NO NO
Signal 8: YES 2048 40.0 200.0 NO NO





Page 3 <C> Card Socket Definitions Wed Jun 28 13:32:21 2017


TCCA Card Definition - Socket 1 - Screen 5/7

Milliamp Input Definitions 9 - 14


Signal CDB value CDB value CDB value Enable Enable
in use Full Scale at 4 mA at 20 mA Low diag High diag
------- ---------- --------- --------- -------- ---------
Signal 9: YES 2048 -49.0 167.0 NO NO
Signal 10: YES 512 0.0 5.0 NO NO

Signal 11: YES 512 0.0 5.0 NO NO
Signal 12: YES 512 0.0 27.7 NO NO

Signal 13: YES 256 0.0 125.0 NO NO
Signal 14: YES 2048 0.0 2000.0 NO NO


TCCB Card Definition - Socket 2 - Screen 1/7


TCCB 196/320 ePROM Revision Information: (#B)

TCCB 196 firmware:
Major Rev: 4
Minor Rev: 3

TCCB 320 firmware:
Major Rev: 4
Minor Rev: 1



TCCB Card Definition - Socket 2 - Screen 3/7

Milliamp Input Definitions 1 thru 8 (4 to 20 mA)

Signal CDB value CDB value CDB value Enable Enable
in use Full Scale at 4 mA at 20 mA Low diag High diag
------- ---------- --------- --------- -------- ---------
Signal 1: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO
Signal 2: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO

Signal 3: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO
Signal 4: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO

Signal 5: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO
Signal 6: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO

Signal 7: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO
Signal 8: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO


Page 6 <C> Card Socket Definitions Wed Jun 28 13:32:21 2017


TCCB Card Definition - Socket 2 - Screen 4/7

Milliamp Input Definitions 9 thru 14 (4 to 20 mA)


Signal CDB value CDB value CDB value Enable Enable
in use Full Scale at 4 mA at 20 mA Low diag High diag
------- ---------- --------- --------- -------- ---------
Signal 9: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO
Signal 10: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO

Signal 11: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO
Signal 12: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO

Signal 13: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO
Signal 14: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO


TCCB Card Definition - Socket 2 - Screen 5/7

Milliamp Input Definitions 15 thru 22 (4 to 20 mA) or (0 to 1 mA)

Signal CDB value CDB value CDB value Enable Enable
in use Full Scale at 4 mA at 20 mA Low diag High diag
(0.2 mA) (1.0 mA)
------- ---------- --------- --------- -------- ---------
Signal 15: YES 256 0.0 50.0 NO NO
Signal 16: YES 16384 0.0 3500.0 NO NO

Signal 17: YES 256 0.0 150.0 NO NO
Signal 18: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO

Signal 19: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO
Signal 20: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO

Signal 21: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO
Signal 22: NO 128 0.0 100.0 NO NO

gilariver Jack,

So, I think I may understand the problem--I apologize for not spotting it sooner. In your original post you said you put BJ1, BJ2 & BJ3 IN--and that is for C_C_MAI15, C_C_MAI16 & C_C_MAI17.

However, C_C_MAI15 is 'Signal 1' on the TCCB. The TCCB has 22 additional mA inputs ("additional" to the 14 mA inputs always present on the TCCA card)--and it's extremely unfortunate that GE Salem didn't label them as 'Signal 15' through Signal 36,' instead of 'Signal 1' through 'Signal 22.'

I presume you connected the three two-wire transmitter inputs to TCCB-3 & -1 (EXC & POS, respectively), TCCB-4 & -5 (EXC & POS, respectively) and TCCB-9 & -7 (EXC & POS, respectively). That would correspond to BJC1, BJC2 and BJC3 (for signal ground referencing). And, that corresponds to 'Signal 1,', 'Signal 2' and 'Signal 3' on the TCCB I/O Configurator card.

So, I think all you need to do is to "move" the signal parameters from 'Signal 15' to 'Signal 1' (which is actually C_C_MAI15--14+1), from 'Signal 16' to 'Signal 2' (which is actually C_C_MAI16--14+2)) and from 'Signal 17' to 'Signal 3' (which is actually C_C_MAI15--14+3), 'Verify', 'Save', 'List Screens', 'List Parms', 'Save and Exit', download the I/O Configuration to <C>, and re-boot <C>--and the problem will be solved.

Hope this helps!!! Sorry I didn't catch this sooner, but it became clear after I saw the TCCB card screen list and looked at the Signal Flow Diagrams in Appendix D of the 'Mark V Application Manual,' GEH-6195. Note that the TCCB terminal descriptions are shown on the 'Milliamp Input Tables'--usually at the very start of Appendix D. And, that may--or may not--help with understanding the "mismatch" of the TCCB I/O Configurator card signal descriptions.

Please write back to let us know how you fare!!!

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think you've found it. I will try this at our next opportunity and report back the findings.

Thanks a bunch.