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How can I take the LZA archives on to a usb harddisk? (SU runs on sco openserver 5)
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G
GP
Do you have Web4TXP??
If so, FTP the files to a HMI server then install an FTP client on one of the Web4TXP clients an extract the files that way.
Why do this anyway, this is what your MOD is for, or am I right in assuming that you're trying to create some type of "offline" data browser for your historical data?
I'm curious as to what you're trying to do.
If so, FTP the files to a HMI server then install an FTP client on one of the Web4TXP clients an extract the files that way.
Why do this anyway, this is what your MOD is for, or am I right in assuming that you're trying to create some type of "offline" data browser for your historical data?
I'm curious as to what you're trying to do.
M
Michael Griffin
Could you be a bit more clear as to what your question is? I'm not a Teleperm or Openserver expert, but I may have a few suggestions if I understand what you are trying to do.
A) Is the problem that the computer won't see the USB hard drive when you plug it in? Some USB harddrives need special non-standard drivers which are probably not available for Openserver.
B) If "A", have you tried a USB flash drive? These normally use a generic "mass storage" profile which is more widely supported.
C) If "A" or "B", which "version 5" do you have? If I recall correctly, Openserver got a whole new USB subsystem in one of the version 5 releases, but you might have a release which predates that.
D) Is the problem that you don't know how to copy files? If so, are you aware of the "cp" command?
E) None of the above? Can you explain your problem in a bit more detail in that case?
P.S. SCO declared bankruptcy earlier this year. Due to poor management decisions their business is in rapid decline and most of their customers have
deserted them. Unless the bankruptcy courts can pry the remains of the company out of the hands of the existing managers within the next few months
and sell the assets to someone who knows what they are doing there won't be anything left to save.
If software support matters to you, then you should start looking at your options. Most of SCO's existing customers have moved their applications over to Linux as this involves the least change. You might ask Siemens (or whoever
supplied you with Teleperm XP) what they can do for you.
You may already know this, which I suppose would be one reason for trying to copy the archive files to another destination.
A) Is the problem that the computer won't see the USB hard drive when you plug it in? Some USB harddrives need special non-standard drivers which are probably not available for Openserver.
B) If "A", have you tried a USB flash drive? These normally use a generic "mass storage" profile which is more widely supported.
C) If "A" or "B", which "version 5" do you have? If I recall correctly, Openserver got a whole new USB subsystem in one of the version 5 releases, but you might have a release which predates that.
D) Is the problem that you don't know how to copy files? If so, are you aware of the "cp" command?
E) None of the above? Can you explain your problem in a bit more detail in that case?
P.S. SCO declared bankruptcy earlier this year. Due to poor management decisions their business is in rapid decline and most of their customers have
deserted them. Unless the bankruptcy courts can pry the remains of the company out of the hands of the existing managers within the next few months
and sell the assets to someone who knows what they are doing there won't be anything left to save.
If software support matters to you, then you should start looking at your options. Most of SCO's existing customers have moved their applications over to Linux as this involves the least change. You might ask Siemens (or whoever
supplied you with Teleperm XP) what they can do for you.
You may already know this, which I suppose would be one reason for trying to copy the archive files to another destination.
S
Sunil
Thank you.
Presently we are taking our archives on MOD. But one MOD can store only 6 days data. So 60 MODs per year (approx) and we are contractually obliged to keep the archives for 10 years.
Now are planning to transfer data from MOD to a USB hard disk. This way I will be able to store the data of 16 MODs on to an 80 GB USB hard disk, also I can re use the MOD.
We don't have Web4TXP.
Presently we are taking our archives on MOD. But one MOD can store only 6 days data. So 60 MODs per year (approx) and we are contractually obliged to keep the archives for 10 years.
Now are planning to transfer data from MOD to a USB hard disk. This way I will be able to store the data of 16 MODs on to an 80 GB USB hard disk, also I can re use the MOD.
We don't have Web4TXP.
S
Sunil
Thank you very much.
Problem : In Teleperm XP archives are taken on to a MOD. One MOD can store the data of 6 days. I have to take this backups for next many years. So I thought of transfering the data from MOD to a USB harddisk (80GB or more). This way I can reuse the MOD.
I tried to install USB disk on my PC run on SCO Openserver 5.06a, using mkdev hd. But there was no option in the available list for adding a USB disk. (I was confused).
I was using dd command for copying the files from MOD to harddisk.
Sunil
Problem : In Teleperm XP archives are taken on to a MOD. One MOD can store the data of 6 days. I have to take this backups for next many years. So I thought of transfering the data from MOD to a USB harddisk (80GB or more). This way I can reuse the MOD.
I tried to install USB disk on my PC run on SCO Openserver 5.06a, using mkdev hd. But there was no option in the available list for adding a USB disk. (I was confused).
I was using dd command for copying the files from MOD to harddisk.
Sunil
M
Michael Griffin
A quick Google search tells me that SCO Openserver got the new USB subsystem in release 5.07, while you have 5.06a. Version 5.07 supposedly includes "Class Drivers, including Keyboards, Pointing Devices, CD-ROMs, Floppy, and Mass Storage Devices". It's possible that your version doesn't support your USB hard drive. I don't know for sure that your drive isn't supported, this is just speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me.
The following is a link to the SCO mkdev documentation. If the drive gets mounted, it should show up in the "/dev" directory.
http://docsrv.sco.com:507/en/man/html.HW/usb.HW.html
The mkdev command is an old AT&T Unix command which modern Unix (or Linux or BSD) versions don't use, except apparently for SCO. With most Linux versions for example, you would just plug it in and it would get mounted automatically.
If USB doesn't work, there may be some other options. Does the computer have any Ethernet networking options? If it does, then there are several different possibilities.
One is that instead of using a USB hard drive, you could try one of the low end Ethernet network attached storage (NAS) devices. Low cost consumer versions are typically $200 to $250 (with hard drive). They typically support NFS and SMB networking. In other words, they are a small file server. If your Openserver has NFS client support or has SAMBA client for SMB networking, then it should be able to talk to the NAS box using one of these. Make sure you check the specs before counting on NFS support though. I haven't seen one which doesn't have this, but I don't know what every manufacturer might do. Also make sure the version of OpenServer you have still supports NFS. I don't know what Siemens might have done to it in the course of customising it for Teleperm.
As for copying files, you don't want to use the "dd" command. "dd" operates at a very low level, and is more commonly used for making a block-by-block copy of a entire disk (or sections of a disk). To copy *files* you want to use "cp".
For example, you can use "dd" to make an exact copy of an entire CD disk and copy it as a single file to your hard drive. This would give you one big file that you can burn to another CD as an exact copy of the entire disk. If you want to copy individual *files* off the CD so you can look at each file, then you want to use the "cp" command and tell it which files to copy. For
example: "cp *.lza /dev/nameofthedevice" (obviously,
replace "nameofthedevice" with the actual device name). Remember that file names are case sensitive, so use "*.lza" or "*.LZA" (or whatever) according to whatever the actual file name is.
If I were in your shoes and wanted to get something working quickly though, I would be considering just using something simple like FTP. If you have an FTP client on your SCO Openserver system, you could set up a private FTP server on another PC and hook up to the Openserver system to transfer the files. I had to do this a while ago for an old Windows system that had a similar problem (it "supported USB", but it wouldn't actually talk to any useful USB devices).
If you want to set up a private FTP server, probably the easiest way is to install Linux on a spare PC and install something like Pro-FTPd (proftpd). This should take about 20 minutes altogether (if this option interests you, ask for more details). There are also free FTP servers for Windows, but I don't know any of them well enough to recommend one. Don't put this server on the internet, just hook it up to your Openserver system.
At the OpenServer end, see what you have for an ftp client. It probably has the "ftp" command. It might also have a more user friendly ftp client.
As well as the FTP option, you could do something with a combination of ssh and rsync. That would take a bit more research work, but might be more suited for setting up a permanent system which works automatically.
You could also set up the Linux PC as an NFS server and network the OpenServer box to it. This basically does the same thing as the NAS box mentioned above, but you get the option of being able to do things like burn CDs on the PC.
I am assuming in the above that you don't want to do anything to modify the Openserver installation that is running your Teleperm software, or to put the Openserver computer on the same network as the office PCs in your company. The above are the least intrusive options I can think of at this time.
The following is a link to the SCO mkdev documentation. If the drive gets mounted, it should show up in the "/dev" directory.
http://docsrv.sco.com:507/en/man/html.HW/usb.HW.html
The mkdev command is an old AT&T Unix command which modern Unix (or Linux or BSD) versions don't use, except apparently for SCO. With most Linux versions for example, you would just plug it in and it would get mounted automatically.
If USB doesn't work, there may be some other options. Does the computer have any Ethernet networking options? If it does, then there are several different possibilities.
One is that instead of using a USB hard drive, you could try one of the low end Ethernet network attached storage (NAS) devices. Low cost consumer versions are typically $200 to $250 (with hard drive). They typically support NFS and SMB networking. In other words, they are a small file server. If your Openserver has NFS client support or has SAMBA client for SMB networking, then it should be able to talk to the NAS box using one of these. Make sure you check the specs before counting on NFS support though. I haven't seen one which doesn't have this, but I don't know what every manufacturer might do. Also make sure the version of OpenServer you have still supports NFS. I don't know what Siemens might have done to it in the course of customising it for Teleperm.
As for copying files, you don't want to use the "dd" command. "dd" operates at a very low level, and is more commonly used for making a block-by-block copy of a entire disk (or sections of a disk). To copy *files* you want to use "cp".
For example, you can use "dd" to make an exact copy of an entire CD disk and copy it as a single file to your hard drive. This would give you one big file that you can burn to another CD as an exact copy of the entire disk. If you want to copy individual *files* off the CD so you can look at each file, then you want to use the "cp" command and tell it which files to copy. For
example: "cp *.lza /dev/nameofthedevice" (obviously,
replace "nameofthedevice" with the actual device name). Remember that file names are case sensitive, so use "*.lza" or "*.LZA" (or whatever) according to whatever the actual file name is.
If I were in your shoes and wanted to get something working quickly though, I would be considering just using something simple like FTP. If you have an FTP client on your SCO Openserver system, you could set up a private FTP server on another PC and hook up to the Openserver system to transfer the files. I had to do this a while ago for an old Windows system that had a similar problem (it "supported USB", but it wouldn't actually talk to any useful USB devices).
If you want to set up a private FTP server, probably the easiest way is to install Linux on a spare PC and install something like Pro-FTPd (proftpd). This should take about 20 minutes altogether (if this option interests you, ask for more details). There are also free FTP servers for Windows, but I don't know any of them well enough to recommend one. Don't put this server on the internet, just hook it up to your Openserver system.
At the OpenServer end, see what you have for an ftp client. It probably has the "ftp" command. It might also have a more user friendly ftp client.
As well as the FTP option, you could do something with a combination of ssh and rsync. That would take a bit more research work, but might be more suited for setting up a permanent system which works automatically.
You could also set up the Linux PC as an NFS server and network the OpenServer box to it. This basically does the same thing as the NAS box mentioned above, but you get the option of being able to do things like burn CDs on the PC.
I am assuming in the above that you don't want to do anything to modify the Openserver installation that is running your Teleperm software, or to put the Openserver computer on the same network as the office PCs in your company. The above are the least intrusive options I can think of at this time.
G
GP
Sunil,
I can sympathize with your pain at having to exchange the MOD's every 6 days, it may appear like a small straight forward job to some, but after some time it becomes quite a pain in the a**.
There are a few things you can improve your system. Firstly do a complete alarm audit; remove any unnecessary alarming, and re-prioritize the alarm types (are 'A' type alarms really alarms, or could they be 'W' types with possible delay times incorporated??). This does entail a lot of work, but will cut back your ASD traffic, hence your LZA storage.
Additionally, audit the delta's and sampling times of analog values. If the delta's have been set too small and the sampling times set too fast, then the LZA storage will be large.
Don't be too brutal as there must be sufficient data available on the LZA if there is an incident to investigate. There is nothing worse than not having enough 'detail' in trends when your boiler is tripping on a transient HiHi level and this is not apparent o the responsible analog trend signal.
Who knows what was left over from commissioning.
Honestly you should try this first to cut down on you LZA traffic. Your other method leaves you open to data corruption if you (or others) make a mistake. I would seriously hate to be in the situation where you've tried to migrate the data on to a USB har drive and then when the historical data is needed it cant be retrieved because it's been saved as the wrong data type or on a system with a different file system type (FAT32, Riesers etc).
I cant stress enough that trying to save Unix data (of this nature) on a Windows machine (and visa versa) is very, very risky. Even if it doesn't make sense, all it takes is one incident and you're liable....be very careful.
You should be able to convince your management to do this audit, especially considering the cost of MOD's.
Could you please let me know what Siemens site you are at.
I can sympathize with your pain at having to exchange the MOD's every 6 days, it may appear like a small straight forward job to some, but after some time it becomes quite a pain in the a**.
There are a few things you can improve your system. Firstly do a complete alarm audit; remove any unnecessary alarming, and re-prioritize the alarm types (are 'A' type alarms really alarms, or could they be 'W' types with possible delay times incorporated??). This does entail a lot of work, but will cut back your ASD traffic, hence your LZA storage.
Additionally, audit the delta's and sampling times of analog values. If the delta's have been set too small and the sampling times set too fast, then the LZA storage will be large.
Don't be too brutal as there must be sufficient data available on the LZA if there is an incident to investigate. There is nothing worse than not having enough 'detail' in trends when your boiler is tripping on a transient HiHi level and this is not apparent o the responsible analog trend signal.
Who knows what was left over from commissioning.
Honestly you should try this first to cut down on you LZA traffic. Your other method leaves you open to data corruption if you (or others) make a mistake. I would seriously hate to be in the situation where you've tried to migrate the data on to a USB har drive and then when the historical data is needed it cant be retrieved because it's been saved as the wrong data type or on a system with a different file system type (FAT32, Riesers etc).
I cant stress enough that trying to save Unix data (of this nature) on a Windows machine (and visa versa) is very, very risky. Even if it doesn't make sense, all it takes is one incident and you're liable....be very careful.
You should be able to convince your management to do this audit, especially considering the cost of MOD's.
Could you please let me know what Siemens site you are at.
S
Sunil
Thank you very much.
I will do an alarm audit. Also I will recheck the sampling delta values. I am working as DCS Engineer at Sohar Power Company, Sohar, Sultanate of Oman.
I will do an alarm audit. Also I will recheck the sampling delta values. I am working as DCS Engineer at Sohar Power Company, Sohar, Sultanate of Oman.
S
Sunil
Thank you very much.
mkdev hd (as given in SCO help) was tried, but the USB option is missing.
Using ftp commander I could transfer the file on to a USB hard disk mounted on a Windows PC.
Sunil.
mkdev hd (as given in SCO help) was tried, but the USB option is missing.
Using ftp commander I could transfer the file on to a USB hard disk mounted on a Windows PC.
Sunil.
M
Mikas
Please, can you share the way you managed to transfer data to USB?
We too, using MODs for archiving, but recently I needed a way to transfer data (only one group of 5 measurement values in period of five hours) to windows machine, so I can perform analisys using tools such as Excel and Scilab.
I guess I'll need FTP client (don't have web4txp), but I don't know where data is placed in hard disk on PU/SU (it is not LZA archive).I hope you understand what I want to do. I have created group of signals, but don't know in which folder data is saved, so I can copy.
Also, in which format is data on MOD? Is it in some kind of textual file or table? How did you do copy?
P.S. I'm also working with SPPA T2000 (TXP) and I'd like to make connection with other engineers and technicians from other parts of world to exchange thoughts, ideas, maintetance tricks and similar.
If you're willing please send email to brobigi at yahoo.com
We too, using MODs for archiving, but recently I needed a way to transfer data (only one group of 5 measurement values in period of five hours) to windows machine, so I can perform analisys using tools such as Excel and Scilab.
I guess I'll need FTP client (don't have web4txp), but I don't know where data is placed in hard disk on PU/SU (it is not LZA archive).I hope you understand what I want to do. I have created group of signals, but don't know in which folder data is saved, so I can copy.
Also, in which format is data on MOD? Is it in some kind of textual file or table? How did you do copy?
P.S. I'm also working with SPPA T2000 (TXP) and I'd like to make connection with other engineers and technicians from other parts of world to exchange thoughts, ideas, maintetance tricks and similar.
If you're willing please send email to brobigi at yahoo.com
C
cavi
I have the same problem, did you have any solution? I tried to install a sencond HD, but with out sucess!
How can I take the LZA archives on to a usb harddisk? (SU runs on sco openserver >5)
How can I take the LZA archives on to a usb harddisk? (SU runs on sco openserver >5)
A
Asaf
all you guys with sppa 2000,
the only way to extract data from the system
in txp is:
if you have the proper licens, then in the OT
under logs menu, enter your query and then insted of VDU choose DEPOT give your file a name and press OK.
now go to the leeding SU or SU/PU under /txpproz/prt
you would find your file
open with notped or import to excel etc.
the only way to extract data from the system
in txp is:
if you have the proper licens, then in the OT
under logs menu, enter your query and then insted of VDU choose DEPOT give your file a name and press OK.
now go to the leeding SU or SU/PU under /txpproz/prt
you would find your file
open with notped or import to excel etc.
A
Asaf
hi,
all of you with Archiving problems..
i spent a lot of time and thinking on how to solve this problem.
i think i have the ultimate solution!!!
i dont know about all of you but when we bought the DCS 80g of HD was state of the art..
no more. today you can get 300g easy or even 500g
depends on the interface (scsi or IDE)
that way i can easily store 10 times more the original seting.
for the ones of you that needs more details post a question...
all of you with Archiving problems..
i spent a lot of time and thinking on how to solve this problem.
i think i have the ultimate solution!!!
i dont know about all of you but when we bought the DCS 80g of HD was state of the art..
no more. today you can get 300g easy or even 500g
depends on the interface (scsi or IDE)
that way i can easily store 10 times more the original seting.
for the ones of you that needs more details post a question...
A
Asaf
I really don't understand why anyone would like to to take the LZA out of the system...
The files on LZA could not be read any where out of Txp, they are binary files, but if you insist I could write it down.
The files on LZA could not be read any where out of Txp, they are binary files, but if you insist I could write it down.
A
Alex Olokhtonow
I am definite that Siemens has a document, describing a second hard drive for lza extension. If it's still of any interest, please call, I shall find and send it to you.
A
asad
Hi,
If you have the Siemens document describing a second HD for lza extension I want to study it. Please send it to my email. (www. afsar1644 at gmail. com)
I work as DCS engineer in power plant. (Teleperm XP)
If you have the Siemens document describing a second HD for lza extension I want to study it. Please send it to my email. (www. afsar1644 at gmail. com)
I work as DCS engineer in power plant. (Teleperm XP)
S
Stefan Lynge Christensen
Hi,
I would recommend you contact Siemens in Karlsruhe Germany. They know how to solve your problems.
We have TXP on several of our power plants in Denmark, and I have seen different solutions. In one of the biggest plants we have a cabinet with many raid hard drives, and I know that they can handle several years of data storage. We don't use MODs anymore.
The system handles data from two boilers, one steam turbine and two gas turbines, and have a very high automation degree in relation to other plants. We store almost everything, which means that the data storage works hard.
I'm sure that Siemens have better solutions for you than using USB drives, etc.
Best regards,
Stefan
I would recommend you contact Siemens in Karlsruhe Germany. They know how to solve your problems.
We have TXP on several of our power plants in Denmark, and I have seen different solutions. In one of the biggest plants we have a cabinet with many raid hard drives, and I know that they can handle several years of data storage. We don't use MODs anymore.
The system handles data from two boilers, one steam turbine and two gas turbines, and have a very high automation degree in relation to other plants. We store almost everything, which means that the data storage works hard.
I'm sure that Siemens have better solutions for you than using USB drives, etc.
Best regards,
Stefan
K
kia
hi
i am working with txp-t2000 systems. our su's HDD has 130Gbyte storage and i want to expand its capacity.
In Siemens documents says:
first add with MKDEV HD command with 1 partition named txparc.01.00 partition's name add run Lza.
AddDisc and Lza/install scripts to extend the LZA.
i did all of them but the su continues to burn the data until now.
can you help me?
thank you
i am working with txp-t2000 systems. our su's HDD has 130Gbyte storage and i want to expand its capacity.
In Siemens documents says:
first add with MKDEV HD command with 1 partition named txparc.01.00 partition's name add run Lza.
AddDisc and Lza/install scripts to extend the LZA.
i did all of them but the su continues to burn the data until now.
can you help me?
thank you
Hello
I have a perfect solution for you.
1. VMOD (Virtual Magnetic Optical Disk) Server
2. DD (Data Decoder)
1. VMOD is a Long Term - State of the Art - Data Storage and Retrieval System - custom designed for Siemens fitted Power Plants, Desalination Plants and Refineries, where process data archiving of the DCS (Siemens Teleperm-XP/T2000 system) are currently performed via replaceable MOD (Magnetic Optical Disks).
2. DD (Data Decoder) is a software to convert all the data from the VMOD server directly to Excel format or SQL format.
Our VMOD server's are already running on many power plants listed below,
1. Ezzel, Bahrain (2 VMODs)
2. Barka, Oman (1 VMOD)
3. Sagunto, Spain (1 VMOD)
4. Shoaiba, Saudi Arab (6 VMODs)
5. Shuweihat, Abu Dhabi (2 VMODs)
6. Torrent Power Sugen, India (3VMOD's to be installed soon)
If you can share the email address of the contact person (I&C) from plant, then I will mail you the soft copy of VMOD brochure.
For any queries please feel free to contact anytime.
Regards
Kiran Goge
kirangoge at gmail com
I have a perfect solution for you.
1. VMOD (Virtual Magnetic Optical Disk) Server
2. DD (Data Decoder)
1. VMOD is a Long Term - State of the Art - Data Storage and Retrieval System - custom designed for Siemens fitted Power Plants, Desalination Plants and Refineries, where process data archiving of the DCS (Siemens Teleperm-XP/T2000 system) are currently performed via replaceable MOD (Magnetic Optical Disks).
2. DD (Data Decoder) is a software to convert all the data from the VMOD server directly to Excel format or SQL format.
Our VMOD server's are already running on many power plants listed below,
1. Ezzel, Bahrain (2 VMODs)
2. Barka, Oman (1 VMOD)
3. Sagunto, Spain (1 VMOD)
4. Shoaiba, Saudi Arab (6 VMODs)
5. Shuweihat, Abu Dhabi (2 VMODs)
6. Torrent Power Sugen, India (3VMOD's to be installed soon)
If you can share the email address of the contact person (I&C) from plant, then I will mail you the soft copy of VMOD brochure.
For any queries please feel free to contact anytime.
Regards
Kiran Goge
kirangoge at gmail com
