Hello gents,
I am working with GE heavy duty frame 5D (MS-5002D) turbines at our plant. I have the manuals for operating the turbine but I can't find any documents that summarize and include all turbine alarms and trips. Can anyone please help and send me such documents for this model or similar models. Thank you in advance!

 

Science20,

What control system does the turbine have?

What compressor control system is used?

 

Science20,

What control system does the turbine have?

What compressor control system is used?

For turbines, Speedtronic Mark VI is the control system and the drive compressors are controlled by CCC system. Not sure about the exact version of CCC , I will ask about it or search in manuals

 

The documents you request are only supplied with SOME GE Mark* digital turbine control systems (such as a Mark VI). In other words, they may or may not exist for your turbine and auxiliaries--and for the application code (program) running in the Mark VI.

Some of the Mark* digital turbine control systems provided by GE Firenze ("Nuovo Pignone") included some documents which described the alarms (Process Alarms--those related to the turbine and auxiliaries) for a specific turbine and its auxiliaries. GE Belfort (GE EPE (Energy Products Europe) also frequently provide similar Process Alarm documents and descriptions of system operation and sequences with the Mark* digital turbine control systems they provide. GE Schenectady/Greenville (USA) did NOT provide these documents--specific to a particular turbine and its auxiliaries--for decades. There was often an EXTREMELY generic list of Process Alarms and possible causes and suggested actions, but they were rarely, if ever, particular to a specific turbine and its auxiliaries.

If the Mark* turbine control system in use on the turbine now was upgraded from a previous Mark* by one of the divisions of GE it is possible, but not likely, such a specific list of Process Alarms particular to a turbine and its auxiliaries might have been provided. (GE Belfort and GE Firenze were better than GE Schenectady/Greenville or GE Salem (where the Mark* turbine control systems were designed) at providing Process Alarm descriptions.

Having said all of the above, learning to use Toolbox (or ToolboxST, as applicable) to troubleshoot alarms is very important. This requires MANY documents, in addition to Toolbox/ToolboxST: namely, the Device Summary, the Control Specification, any documents related to the driven device (in your case, a centrifugal compressor), and most importantly the P&IDs for the various systems. To understand when many alarms are annunciated or trips occur it is necessary to use all of the documents to understand setpoints and systems. Even the documents which some of the divisions of GE provided were kind of vague in their descriptions and suggested actions, while some were very good (bot those were definitely the exception, and not the rule).

Someone on this forum may have a list of Process Alarms for a MS5002D--but it's doubtful if it would be totally applicable to your unit (the seal oil system, the auxilaries (pumps and fans and solenoids, etc.) are usually very similar, but can also be very different depending on the type of driven device (especially in the case of centrifugal compressor drive units). So, while someone may have a list which is applicable to THEIR unit the likelihood it is applicable to your unit is not very good, and while much of it might be applicable (from the turbine perspective), all of the setpoints and parameters will not be exactly the same (unless you get EXTREMLY lucky and someone has exactly the same configuration and driven device as you have).

I wish the news were better. If you're not familiar with using Toolbox or ToolboxST to troubleshoot alarms, there's no time like the present to start. It's usually not too difficult to work "backwards" from the alarm logic signal using Toolbox/ToolboxST to determine what caused the alarm logic to be actuated (or deactuated as the unfortunate case sometimes is). But, it does take experience and a little patience to learn and become familiar with. There are some later versions of Toolbox/TooboxST and CIMPLICITY (PROFICY Machine Edition) which will enable the user to double click on an alarm and automatically open Toolbox/ToolboxST and jump right to the alarm logic responsible for the alarm. From there, again--it's a matter of working "backwards" to find what actuated/de-actuated the alarm logic to annunciate it (or the trip--and EVERY trip should have a Process Alarm, so it should be possible to troubleshoot EVERY trip in the same manner!).

We can help with some questions, but you are still going to need to have the above documents (usually all found in the Operations & Maintenance Manuals). I ALWAYS recommend making copies (the largest size copy possible, especially for P&IDs) so you can make notes and highlight things as you learn and discover them for later reference. No technician or engineer worth his salt ever learned GE-design heavy duty gas turbine operation without having a set of P&IDs he (or she) made notes on. NOT EVER (as in NEVER).

Lastly, even if you do find the Process Alarm descriptions for your turbine--read them for INTENT. Meaning, the written description you are reading is someone's description of the intent of the alarm. It is RARELY the exact, specific description of the alarm. About 95.6241% of the alarm descriptions may be spot on, but the remaining 4.3759% are only going to be partially correct, if that.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news--but that's the truth. Like it or not. As long as purchasers of GE-design heavy duty gas turbines and auxiliaries continue to assume a unit-specific alarm list/description will be provided--and don't specifically write the requirement into the equipment purchase contract--GE IS NEVER going to provide what they should. NEVER. (As an aside, some military forces around the world require equipment documentation BEFORE the equipment is ever produced and delivered. They have people who pore over the documentation and find lots of errors and omissions and those get corrected before the equipment gets produced and delivered. In that way, the documentation matches the equipment--because it was produced BEFORE the equipment was manufactured and delivered. Any changes to the documentaton--once approved by the purchaser--have to be approved before the equipment is delivered, and the documentation has to be updated once approved, before the equipment is delivered. Contrary to popular belief, this is possible. Manufacturers (like GE) who ALSO provide equipment to military organizations have to do it all the time...! And, there are people and companies who can be hired to review and comment on the documentation during the process. So, it's not a dream possibility; it already happens.)

If you have questions, and you are willing to provide some information from the above drawings, we can try to be of help.

 

Science20,

I neglected to add that Toolbox/ToolboxST can be used to generate a report of all Process Alarms which are configured in the application code of the Mark VI. I don't have access to a .m6b file at this writing, but I believe if you open the project file for a particular turbine with Toolbox and then click on 'Device' on the menu bar at the top, scroll down to Reports and then click on Alarms Toolbox will then open a new window with all of the Process Alarms. You can then chose to save the alarm list in the location of your choice. And you can then print the file.

Those are the basic steps; I'm sure if you have problems you can write back here and someone can help with the specifics.

This is just a list of Process Alarms, in an order which is determined by the Mark VI. There is minimal information, but it does include the associated alarm logic signal name and the alarm text for each Process Alarm.

Hope this helps!!!

 

Wow, that was so much information about alarms. Thank you very much CSA! Really appreciate it.

 

Hi gents, Can someone tell me what the L3COMM_IO fault is on the Mark Vie system?

 

Hi Ngassaki

The L3COMM_IO signal is for indicating that all IO packs communicating..

Any time!
Cheers
James