Mark II to Mark VIe
- Thread starter orefasola
- Start date
Experience !!!
orefasola,
It's not clear what you are asking--but to be effective and successful in upgrading any turbine control system the key is experience. EXACTLY as glenmorangie wrote. One word. A truer response cannot be found and will never be given.
In my personal experience, the biggest mistake people make when performing a turbine control system upgrade is that they take a pair or two of diagonal wire cutters into the existing turbine control panel and just start cutting field wiring loose from the terminal boards. They may actually neatly coil the wires in the bottom of the panel--but simply cutting the wires loose to disconnect them from the panel without doing anything to mark the wires to indicate where they were originally terminated is creating huge problems for later during loop-checking.
You are probably asking, "Why do we need to identify where the wires were terminated in the old turbine control panel?" Well, by having that information one can use the Mark II Speedtronic elementary drawing to determine what circuit the wire is used in, and knowing that piece of information one can look at the Mark VIe I/O Report and determine where to land that wire in the Mark VIe. It's as simple as that.
Most people rely on the wires numbers/markers on the existing wiring to indicate the circuit they are used in. In other words, they assume the existing wire numbers/markers are correct and that they are readable and present on every wire in the existing turbine control panel. That would be GREAT--if the wire numbers/markers stay on the wires when they are cut loose from the terminal boards AND they are correct. Many times during initial commissioning decades ago and often after wires get moved over the decades since original commissioning, wire markers/numbers get lost or faded and often some wires are terminated without wire markers (it happens in just about EVERY turbine control system). The thought process behind assuming the wire markers can be used to identify where the wires were terminated is that the drawings (GE calls them "elementary drawings") have every wire uniquely identified with a wire number and that the wire numbers on the drawings are present, readable, and correct. That, too, is simply false--unless someone at the site over the decades the Mark II has been in operation has identified every wire and ensured that every wire is properly drawn and numbered on the Mark II Speedtronic elementary.
When performing a turbine control system upgrade it is important that when a wire is removed from a terminal in the existing turbine control panel it is somehow marked/identified as to exactly where it was determinated from. Without this tiny, seemingly insignificant piece of information it is extremely time-consuming to try to get every wire terminated in the proper location in the new turbine control panel. Even if someone makes a very large table (probably using a spreadsheet) to give every wire a designation (even if it's just a unique number, beginning with 001, for example) and listing where 001 was originally terminated and then using some kind of label or tag with 001 written or printed on it to securely attach to the wire when it is removed (I emphasize securely attached!) then trying to find where to attach any wire later is going to be very time-consuming and frustrating. Full stop. Period. Don't let anyone remove a wire without first making sure it is somehow identified as to where it came from in the existing turbine control panel. Just. Don't. Do. It.
As part of the preparation for the upgrade someone should be looking at the new turbine control system to identify where new wires will have to be connected to match the configuration required by the programming of the new turbine control system. The Mark VIe has the ability to print an "I/O Report" that can be imported into MS-Excel. Armed with this information from the Mark VIe, someone can then look at the Mark II Speedtronic elementary and identify where the required wires for each input and output are terminated and add that information to the spreadsheet--creating a list of "from" and "to" to be used to determinate and reterminate all the wires. By doing this BEFORE any determinating/reterminating is done a LOT of time and trouble will be saved.
As a former colleague of mine was fond of saying, "This ain't rocket science." It's not easy, either--but it's not rocket science and it will save countless hours of time and frustration later. I can't tell you how many turbine control system upgrades stalled when 50 or 70 or 83 wires were unidentified and couldn't be terminated because they lost their wire markers or the wire markers couldn't be read or there wasn't a wire marker on the wires when they were unceremoniously cut from the terminal board. It takes a lot of EXPERIENCE, as glenmorangie so perfectly put it, to use the available drawings (if they are present and can be found and are properly marked-up over the decades) to determine where to terminate them in the new turbine control system. Failing that, it's necessary to go to the field and try to trace wires either with a multi-meter or a wire tracer to determine what circuit the wire is used in so then it can be terminated in the proper place.
Sure--the actual work of upgrading the turbine control system at the site actually begins when the power is removed from the existing turbine control system and the wires can start being disconnected. And it makes people VERY HAPPY to see the wires all cut loose in less than a day or so! But, if there isn't any pre-planning done to make sure it's known where those wires came from so that they can be terminated where they should be in the new turbine control system, then I guarantee there will be lots of wasted time (which is wasted money!) and problems.
One system that has been VERY effective is to use plasticized, adhesive address labels to produce labels which indicate where a wire is determinated from in the Mark II AND where it is to be terminated in the Mark VIe. These plasticized address labels can be printed with this information using a laser printer. The fact that they are plasticized means they are strong and can't easily be torn off or lost. The fact they have an adhesive backing means they can be easily attached to the wires, wrapped around the wire to form a "flag" which can be easily read later. Print the labels in the order of the existing terminal boards in the Mark II, and give them to the people who will be determinating wires from the Mark II. Tell them NOT to determinate a wire if they don't have a label for it. And sit with the people determinating wires so they can tell you or you can see where wires were NOT determinated from the panel and can use the Mark II Speedtronic Elementary and the Mark VIe I/O Report to hand-write a label for those wires which didn't get a printed label.
Again--this is NOT easy work, and it's hard to get started if it's your first time (or anyone's first time). But, it's not rocket science, either. Many wire marker-making machines can accept input from a PC (via USB cable) to print labels with the from/to information that can be attached to the wires as they are being determinated. There are LOTS of ways to make these labels--just do it. Invest the time and money and you will be handsomely rewarded. Actually, if you have never experienced the frustration of trying to determine where to terminate 50 or 70 or 83 wires in a turbine control panel you won't really understand how much time and frustration this will save.
If you don't do this, someone (you?) will be sitting with the people re-terminating the wires in the new turbine control panel as they pick up a wire and need to know where to terminate it. If you rely on the existing wire markers/numbers, you will be sadly disappointed in how many wire markers/numbers are wrong, or unreadable or missing.
This is really the most time-consuming part of the turbine control system upgrade process. And, the most frustrating for most people. The next most time-consuming and frustrating part is loop-checking if you don't know where field devices and instruments are located and how to perform loop-checks.
And, finally, the OTHER extremely frustrating part of the Mark VIe turbine control system upgrade will be the SAD, SORRY condition of the HMI displays. They will take a LOT of work and effort to test and fix all the buttons and graphs and displays just to make them work properly--never mind making them be what the site personnel want them to be (that's ANOTHER story!).
Anyway, if you're involved in the actual work of removing the Mark II panel/components and installing the Mark VIe panel/components, you would do very well to become extremely familiar with the Mark II elementaries and I/O (Input/Output) terminals, AND the Mark VIe I/O Report. Either make the labels or make the from/to spreadsheet--or both is actually VERY helpful. It's time VERY well spent in advance of the SHORT period of time that is being allotted for the conversion/upgrade. And, even if you think it's a long time now--if you don't spend this time in advance it will quickly become too short. Guaranteed.
Hope this helps!
Experience was used to produce this response.... A LOT of experience. Obtained over decades of performing upgrades to Mark IV, Mark V, Mark VI and Mark VIe. This is the most effective use of time in preparation for the actual site work. Especially if you have little or no experience with GE-design heavy duty gas turbines and auxiliaries.
It's not clear what you are asking--but to be effective and successful in upgrading any turbine control system the key is experience. EXACTLY as glenmorangie wrote. One word. A truer response cannot be found and will never be given.
In my personal experience, the biggest mistake people make when performing a turbine control system upgrade is that they take a pair or two of diagonal wire cutters into the existing turbine control panel and just start cutting field wiring loose from the terminal boards. They may actually neatly coil the wires in the bottom of the panel--but simply cutting the wires loose to disconnect them from the panel without doing anything to mark the wires to indicate where they were originally terminated is creating huge problems for later during loop-checking.
You are probably asking, "Why do we need to identify where the wires were terminated in the old turbine control panel?" Well, by having that information one can use the Mark II Speedtronic elementary drawing to determine what circuit the wire is used in, and knowing that piece of information one can look at the Mark VIe I/O Report and determine where to land that wire in the Mark VIe. It's as simple as that.
Most people rely on the wires numbers/markers on the existing wiring to indicate the circuit they are used in. In other words, they assume the existing wire numbers/markers are correct and that they are readable and present on every wire in the existing turbine control panel. That would be GREAT--if the wire numbers/markers stay on the wires when they are cut loose from the terminal boards AND they are correct. Many times during initial commissioning decades ago and often after wires get moved over the decades since original commissioning, wire markers/numbers get lost or faded and often some wires are terminated without wire markers (it happens in just about EVERY turbine control system). The thought process behind assuming the wire markers can be used to identify where the wires were terminated is that the drawings (GE calls them "elementary drawings") have every wire uniquely identified with a wire number and that the wire numbers on the drawings are present, readable, and correct. That, too, is simply false--unless someone at the site over the decades the Mark II has been in operation has identified every wire and ensured that every wire is properly drawn and numbered on the Mark II Speedtronic elementary.
When performing a turbine control system upgrade it is important that when a wire is removed from a terminal in the existing turbine control panel it is somehow marked/identified as to exactly where it was determinated from. Without this tiny, seemingly insignificant piece of information it is extremely time-consuming to try to get every wire terminated in the proper location in the new turbine control panel. Even if someone makes a very large table (probably using a spreadsheet) to give every wire a designation (even if it's just a unique number, beginning with 001, for example) and listing where 001 was originally terminated and then using some kind of label or tag with 001 written or printed on it to securely attach to the wire when it is removed (I emphasize securely attached!) then trying to find where to attach any wire later is going to be very time-consuming and frustrating. Full stop. Period. Don't let anyone remove a wire without first making sure it is somehow identified as to where it came from in the existing turbine control panel. Just. Don't. Do. It.
As part of the preparation for the upgrade someone should be looking at the new turbine control system to identify where new wires will have to be connected to match the configuration required by the programming of the new turbine control system. The Mark VIe has the ability to print an "I/O Report" that can be imported into MS-Excel. Armed with this information from the Mark VIe, someone can then look at the Mark II Speedtronic elementary and identify where the required wires for each input and output are terminated and add that information to the spreadsheet--creating a list of "from" and "to" to be used to determinate and reterminate all the wires. By doing this BEFORE any determinating/reterminating is done a LOT of time and trouble will be saved.
As a former colleague of mine was fond of saying, "This ain't rocket science." It's not easy, either--but it's not rocket science and it will save countless hours of time and frustration later. I can't tell you how many turbine control system upgrades stalled when 50 or 70 or 83 wires were unidentified and couldn't be terminated because they lost their wire markers or the wire markers couldn't be read or there wasn't a wire marker on the wires when they were unceremoniously cut from the terminal board. It takes a lot of EXPERIENCE, as glenmorangie so perfectly put it, to use the available drawings (if they are present and can be found and are properly marked-up over the decades) to determine where to terminate them in the new turbine control system. Failing that, it's necessary to go to the field and try to trace wires either with a multi-meter or a wire tracer to determine what circuit the wire is used in so then it can be terminated in the proper place.
Sure--the actual work of upgrading the turbine control system at the site actually begins when the power is removed from the existing turbine control system and the wires can start being disconnected. And it makes people VERY HAPPY to see the wires all cut loose in less than a day or so! But, if there isn't any pre-planning done to make sure it's known where those wires came from so that they can be terminated where they should be in the new turbine control system, then I guarantee there will be lots of wasted time (which is wasted money!) and problems.
One system that has been VERY effective is to use plasticized, adhesive address labels to produce labels which indicate where a wire is determinated from in the Mark II AND where it is to be terminated in the Mark VIe. These plasticized address labels can be printed with this information using a laser printer. The fact that they are plasticized means they are strong and can't easily be torn off or lost. The fact they have an adhesive backing means they can be easily attached to the wires, wrapped around the wire to form a "flag" which can be easily read later. Print the labels in the order of the existing terminal boards in the Mark II, and give them to the people who will be determinating wires from the Mark II. Tell them NOT to determinate a wire if they don't have a label for it. And sit with the people determinating wires so they can tell you or you can see where wires were NOT determinated from the panel and can use the Mark II Speedtronic Elementary and the Mark VIe I/O Report to hand-write a label for those wires which didn't get a printed label.
Again--this is NOT easy work, and it's hard to get started if it's your first time (or anyone's first time). But, it's not rocket science, either. Many wire marker-making machines can accept input from a PC (via USB cable) to print labels with the from/to information that can be attached to the wires as they are being determinated. There are LOTS of ways to make these labels--just do it. Invest the time and money and you will be handsomely rewarded. Actually, if you have never experienced the frustration of trying to determine where to terminate 50 or 70 or 83 wires in a turbine control panel you won't really understand how much time and frustration this will save.
If you don't do this, someone (you?) will be sitting with the people re-terminating the wires in the new turbine control panel as they pick up a wire and need to know where to terminate it. If you rely on the existing wire markers/numbers, you will be sadly disappointed in how many wire markers/numbers are wrong, or unreadable or missing.
This is really the most time-consuming part of the turbine control system upgrade process. And, the most frustrating for most people. The next most time-consuming and frustrating part is loop-checking if you don't know where field devices and instruments are located and how to perform loop-checks.
And, finally, the OTHER extremely frustrating part of the Mark VIe turbine control system upgrade will be the SAD, SORRY condition of the HMI displays. They will take a LOT of work and effort to test and fix all the buttons and graphs and displays just to make them work properly--never mind making them be what the site personnel want them to be (that's ANOTHER story!).
Anyway, if you're involved in the actual work of removing the Mark II panel/components and installing the Mark VIe panel/components, you would do very well to become extremely familiar with the Mark II elementaries and I/O (Input/Output) terminals, AND the Mark VIe I/O Report. Either make the labels or make the from/to spreadsheet--or both is actually VERY helpful. It's time VERY well spent in advance of the SHORT period of time that is being allotted for the conversion/upgrade. And, even if you think it's a long time now--if you don't spend this time in advance it will quickly become too short. Guaranteed.
Hope this helps!
Experience was used to produce this response.... A LOT of experience. Obtained over decades of performing upgrades to Mark IV, Mark V, Mark VI and Mark VIe. This is the most effective use of time in preparation for the actual site work. Especially if you have little or no experience with GE-design heavy duty gas turbines and auxiliaries.
