To whom it may concern
We'd like to know about the criteria for choosing between using OP (Operator Panel) or IPC (Industrial PC) for the control system of a plant. I'd be thankful of you if you would read the following facts & E-mail your suggestions to me.

We have a powder milk plant to be automated. The plant is around 1500 sq.m. and consists of 4 parts.
1- CIP ( Cleaning In Place ) : to clean pipes & tanks,..
2- Homogenizer
3- Process: to turn milk into powder milk
4- Packing: to pack the powder milk in 2 kinds of packages

But at the moment we only want to automate the control system of CIP part consisting of 3 tanks (water, LYE, acid) & having 100 I/Os.

As I said above, we can have a local OP to control the CIP or we can have a remote control room equipped with PCs & printers to do this (& some day we may cover the control of the other 3 parts in this room, too).

I want to know which solution is better & considering the higher expense of the second solution (control room) , does it worth having a control room. some impartant parameters for a logical reply may be as follows:

1- cost
2- future expansion possibility
3- maintenance
4- work force
4- comfortability
5- reliability
6- accuracy
7- connection to MES ( Manufacturing Executive System) in future
8- Comparison from HMI based on OP versus HMI based on computer point of view
9- Reporting facilities(historical & real time)

Some facts:
The temperature is about 20 C
NO viberation & shock exists
Control system has a PLC ( Cj1, Omron )
The connection between PLC & HMI is through Ethernet
The heads of the plants don’t care about the difference, the just want to have no problem with low cost

Thanks for your cooperation.

Yours truly
Masoumi

 

I feel OIs will be good option. Industrial PCs are often used where harsh environments exists and useful to feed data ( feeding data from OIs is time consuming than PCs )
Also important point is about graphics. If are planning to have touchscreen MMIs with graphics then PCs can be good option.

Should you want further details mail me at [email protected]

With regards,
yogesh

 

I have seen the problems with using a piece meal approach to a control system.Your best solution would be to have a total system. Look at deltav or another dcs type system. These type of system are more expensive but, you can start with the CIP system and expand in the future to include the whole plant.
You can get more info about deltav at easydeltav.com.
if you want contact me off list at [email protected]
hope this helps

 

Masoumi I have many years of experience designing controls for Dairy plants, yet I don't understand what you want answered. Does the CIP already have an Omron PLC with 100 I/Os and an HMI (OP?) ?. If yes what do you want to add. If no, then what regulatory spec's must you conform to, and what is the extent of the instrumentation required or desired. - Cost, you need to define the project. - Expansion, you need to roughly define the extent. -Work force, you will need expertise or training to maintain automation controls. - The other questions are either too far reaching or not applicable for what seems to be a small low budget operation ?. ray pike

 

This sounds like a Request For Quote. I am sure many automation vendors in your area would be happy to bid on this project.

CIP and food service is not a trivial matter. You don't say where you are located, but if it is US based, everything must be FDA certified.

This project is well outside the scope of a "roll your own" type of system unless you have experience in this area. Pay someone to do it. It will be well worth it.

--Joe Jansen

 

Masoumi,

Congratulations. Your plant management has just given you the responsibility to design the plant operation. Your decisions will determine the number of operators, operator training needed, and the operator's quality of work life, production coordination, maintenance coordination, and many other operational issues. Actually, I think your plant management needs you to properly frame the decisions for them.

The criteria for choosing between a local operator panel or a control room is a matter of determining which method of plant operation will best help the company meet it's financial goals.

Forget about designing the controls and think about designing a plant.

- Do you want operators to interact with the controls often controlling small areas of limited automation and few loops or do you want the operators to be process managers over large areas of the process and many loops at high levels of automation?
- Advantages/Disadvantages of having the operators walking around in their process areas
- Synergy of central control room for all control, communications, alarm handling, dispatch of maintenance, etc.
- To what degree can the process be optimized with advanced control, SPC, or coordination between areas for things like product changes,etc.
- How will orders be received and manufacturing tracked and reported to corporate in five years?
- Where is quality measured?
- Who will maintain, administer, modify and recover the controls and information systems?
- Can your plant train and retain sophisticated system support personnel?

These questions will begin to get you started involving operations management. Keep in mind that your control systems should be built to meet the vision of how the plant should be operated at least until your plant management can justify modifications.

Whatever you do should be part of a multi-year plan.

If you want to discuss this more feel free to contact me via email.

Kevin Totherow
Sylution Consulting
[email protected]

 

Dear Masoumi,

We are a machine manufacturer and we have used IPC so many years but now we use HMI. I prefer HMI and I advise HMI.

HMI has two main advantage important.
1. Marketing
2. After Service

For HMI I advise OMRON products.

Regards,
TAYFUN

 

APC are a good choice for such systems. we offer such APC here in India. ControlSoft Inc is a US based Company specialising in APC systems. we specialise in process control applications.

We offer micro DCS which is sufficient to control a process already having a PLC unlike a DCS which is expensive. Also we offer loop tuning softwares for your existing PLC systems. you can contact us at our email address: [email protected]

Manmeet