Hello,

I am not sure if this type of discussion is kosher as most posts here are technical in nature.

I work in the Minneapolis area. For years it seems that the Twin Cities has been a mecca for engineers with PLC experience. Lately, however, this has changed. My company designs, builds, and programs industrial machinery. With my company's two main competitors both closing their doors in the last year, one would think we would be seeing an increase in work, but this is not happening. Many of the 3M plants we used to deliver machinery to have shut their doors and moved to Mexico or China.

When a company decides to build a factory in China, do European control houses get the work? When they build factories in Mexico do control houses in San Diego or other southern control houses get the work? I have been trying to dig up information on the web but haven't found anything.

All I know is that with every 3M plant that decides to move overseas my frustration with this career choice (going on 15 years now) rises.

Thanks for any contribution to this topic.

 

Hello list,

Here in Kenya, We do occasionally get enquiries from our clients on huge process automation projects. Often, these projects are taken up by German firms. If you would be interested in partnerships with us in such ventures, do
contact me offlist on email: [email protected]

Rgds
Gabriel

 

The American economy is moving toward the Services. Your must do adapt those changes, instead of factories, think about intelligent buildings, control and saving of energy and many others applications. Chinese and Mexico have owns system integratos, with very high competitive levels and will survive without external services. For new projects it is possible to find work, but in maintenance or upgrade tasks it is almost impossible. I began in the sector of the computation and finished in the automation and the power electricity. I wish desire luck and thinking again, there are spaces.

Best regards
Serguei K.

 

This doesn't directly answer your question, but I mainly buy 3M tape because it says made in the USA on the label. I'll even pay more for it, but if I see that they are all made overseas, then I might as well price shop and buy the cheapest tape on the shelf. What comes around, goes around.

 

Hi.

I have been in the Maquiladora enviroment since 1996 (just when finish university). The north border of Mexico is getting a lot of manufacuring companies, but US cities are not interested in Automation services, for example at San Diego the main Engineering is focus on communications, and as well as El Paso Texas, the business is more dedicated to sell spare parts or raw material. Here in Tijuana there are some shops but the capacity is not enough, there is some work that has to go to LA, Chicago, Detroit or companies like ATS (well known integrator). The companies' automation policies varies, from Japaneses to Americans, Japaneses don't automate unless a similiar aplication is being held at Far East but americans tend to go by savings.

Regarding the China open, well, I have been in Taiwan and the issue is that we didn't know how big the country is, commo'n 23.4 billions in Main China??? The country has been living with almost no relation with western, now they open, is normal to get a level change in world economics. The taiwaneses, as well as korean and other tigers follows the Japanese discipline almost blind, at Taiwan the labor is filipino, conditions are barely above slavery, now Japanese designs the product and the machinery and let the taiwanese manufacture where they want (south america, central america, Mexico, China, etc).

My opinion is meanwhile the systems integrators don't reach Mexico and China on-site, the business will slow down. Is just a matter of partneship.

Oscar

 

I want to give you other point of view. Big companies have to think global, SO DO WE!! It means global supply chain, global markets, global services and the most important: GLOBAL VALUE CHAIN. The problem is not only about cost of factors but also where the value is created and how to take the most advantage of that value.

Big companies are choosing China, Mexico or India to manufacture their products not only looking for saving cost, there is more behind, we are talking about big CLUSTERS of manufacture, maquila or software development.
The world is changing and new clusters have appeared, replacing other ones.

So what do we do? first we must identify this forces and then we must relocate ourselves. Why don't look for opportunities in China? Many people think that China represents more opportunities than risks, so do I.

Let's think about how to take advantage of this changes...
What about System Integrators in China? How big is that market? grow rate? I was looking Hollysys, very impressed...

If you know about some opportunity please tell me, I was looking for it....

 

Yse, I think you are right, many products in industrial control field owns a large market in China, we also produce and sell controllers in China, so we know that...

Jeff
[email protected]
welcome to discuss with me in your spare time...

 

Hi,

I just got back from Chengdu, China. From seeing it's markets, I now understand why many of the factories and services are moving there.

The quantity of people and quality work ethics, not to mention their education is quickly coming up and as I see it will probably surpass the USA within 15-20 years. I was touring the open markets particularly the mechanical and electronics markets - surveying equipment is pennies on the dollar, controls, electronics are all tremendously over-priced over here. I saw hordes of automated controls, and almost everything else a factory would need to get built up. Automated valves that are 300 dollars + here are 30 dollars there! This is all due to China's low labor rate. Many Chinese get paid 20 cents per hour (some in the Country-side much less). China is developing its roadway infrastructure as well. They've got better constructed 3-6 lane highways with perfectly manacured gardens between the highways and liter is constantly being picked up and streets are swept constantly - day and NIGHT!

Don't get me wrong, I love the USA, but when you make a realistic comparison, we have Freedom of speech (which they don't) and we've got cleaner skies (their polution is horrifying).

Much past that though, they are growing like a huge wave. I saw entire cities being re-vitalized (almost everywhere, sidewalks being put in, infrastructure being installed and skyscrapers being built, huge factories being built!) Its a lot different here where we're vacating factories and our laborers are demanding more money and striking (makes you a little bit ill to compare it).

I wish I had good news that the good old USA was growing, but I'm a realist - they're eating our lunch. As far as the service sector too - their people work 7 days a week and at any given time, there are more than 4-5 clerks around you when you're shopping to help you - shelves are pefectly in order and everything is "super neat and tidy" When you get your car filled up with gas, the attendants wash, dry and clean out the inside of your car! - this is all included in the price of the gas fill up!

I suggest to anyone - go to Chengdu, Shanghai, and experience it for yourself. You'll see that unless our people start to innovate and create protections for our technologies (so they can't copy it) to compete. China is best at reverse engineering products and duplicating them.

The solution to your dilemma is to relocate to Asia as a manager or technical lead and embrace what is happening or be plowed over by it.
Its only going to get worse than better. If you don't believe it, go check it out for yourself.

 

Hello,
I am a Siemens system integrator from South Africa, we are curently regarded as a third world country but our Economic growth rate is +- 7% which is quite impressive. The surge of manufacturing in the east has also effected our manufacturing industry. Our once thriving clothing and textile industry is no more and every other industry sector has been effected by the rise in manufacturing in the east.

I have found however, that many of the current Electrical control systems and equipment (From China) are of a sub standard nature from which we are normally accustomed to. this has created quite a huge market for the upgrade and Re -automation of chinese machines. We have also grown our business in the Intelligent Building systems arena. My advise to you is to carefully look at other areas in the automation game and adapt to this change.

Regards.

 

I worked in many parts of China doing Factory Automation from 1989-2005. In that time i have seen them leap out of the dark ages. There is nothing you or I can do to compete in this market anymore, they will advance and surpass very shortly. the best we can do is find a niche' market in technologies, be them chemical/electronic/mechanic, thats the only way we will have the edge.

Dont forget India is on the door step too, and they are not far behind.

I recommend starting business in asia, probably India more so than china, as their second language is english, and the governing system is much like yours (USA) and ours (Australia)

Dennis

 

It is an intresting topic I found at this forum. I am Chinese, and our company is engaged in GPRS telemetry solution, we manufacture the products with low price with high tech level.

Yes, I knew so many factories move to China, such as Siemens, they ceaselessly open their factory in China since year of 2000, their PLC-S7200 is now made in China in order to reduce cost and strength their market share. At same time, I guess they maybe close relativity factory in Germany, becuase the labor cost. Not only the manufature business move to China, but also more and more research departments moved to China.

In our city (the population reach 2 million), we could employ good and experienced hardware and software engineers with salary USD640.00 per month, they are good at embedded design at ARM and RTOS (Real Time Operation system). I suppose if they work in USA, I have no idea how much about their income level.

Recently I consult one electronic technician in Denver US to evaluate our product--a smart device embedded ARM CPU with software support. He told me if it was sold at USD200.00 in American market, the price too low, it should be at least at USD400.00, that will be a reasonable price, but if we can sold at USD200.00, it will be satisfaction for me.

I suggest that do not involved any business for Chemical/electronic/machinery manufacture business anymore. I think high technology and the intellectual property wich could not be reversed and copy business would be good idea.

Li Min
e-mail: limin(at)pxtech.cn
MSN:[email protected]
Skypextech2
Web:www.linkports.com