Vibration Monitoring

Hi All,

I am looking for a solution to predict bearing failure for a slow machine (rotation filling machine) used in food industrial.

The application is to put a vibration sensor on a very slow machine to monitor the bearing failure, the problem is technically can we pick bearing failure if the machine is very slow? if there is away can you guide me which sensor in terms of frequency etc. or if there is any documents for slow machine vibration monitor.

Thank you in advance and I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards
 
Quite often the best resource for this kind of issue is to work with a bearing supplier to analyze the bearing(s) currently being used and the application (bearing loading conditions (axial; side loads; unanticipated movements; etc.)) to determine if there's a better bearing for the application. A good bearing supplier, even just a manufacturer's representative, will want to help solve a problem like this for a customer (or a potential customer). Many times bearing manufacturers themselves have application engineers who have experience working with equipment designers and manufacturers to determine the best bearings for the application. You may find the bearing(s) currently being used are more suited for high-speed applications rather than low-speed applications. You may find there is excessive wear in the equipment which has not been accounted for by the maintenance personnel.
You can also call the equipment manufacturer for help with this kind of problem. Usually, they are quite interested in helping to solve reliability issues and often end up improving their current/future offerings by involving themselves in troubleshooting situations like this.
But, don't think you need to do all this on your own. The industrial world is full of specialists that are happy to help if asked. And it doesn't ever hurt to build your network of contacts for persons who have this kind of knowledge and are willing to share it. (You don't have to go out and find an industrial consulting engineer--again, quite often just calling a bearing supplier can be all that's required to get some quality help. Certainly, sometimes the person you talk with might not be interested in helping with your "small" problem--but don't let that stop you from continuing to call and ask around. And, many manufacturers have websites and provide email contacts for technical support.)
Best of luck! Before investing in a vibration monitoring system, make sure you have the right equipment for the job. There are MANY examples of equipment manufacturers not choosing the proper components for one reason or another (even their engineers don't know or think to reach out for help and try to specify components just by looking at a website).
 
FYI, about 6-7 years ago a number of vendors came out with wireless vibration sensors to climb on the wireless instrumentation band wagon. The output of the device is a scaled number.

These companies are not vibration monitoring companies; they're companies that make and sell a sensor. They have no idea how to interpret a vibration signal other than to alarm "above a nominal threshold".

I would suggest that a piecemeal approach, buying one or more vibration sensors and hoping you can wing it with vibration analysis is not likely to be a secure approach that will protect your machine.
 
Hi All,

I am looking for a solution to predict bearing failure for a slow machine (rotation filling machine) used in food industrial.

The application is to put a vibration sensor on a very slow machine to monitor the bearing failure, the problem is technically can we pick bearing failure if the machine is very slow? if there is away can you guide me which sensor in terms of frequency etc. or if there is any documents for slow machine vibration monitor.

Thank you in advance and I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards
https://www.emerson.com/en-us/autom...agement/asset-monitoring/condition-monitoring
 
Hi All,

I am looking for a solution to predict bearing failure for a slow machine (rotation filling machine) used in food industrial.

The application is to put a vibration sensor on a very slow machine to monitor the bearing failure, the problem is technically can we pick bearing failure if the machine is very slow? if there is away can you guide me which sensor in terms of frequency etc. or if there is any documents for slow machine vibration monitor.

Thank you in advance and I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards
Yes it is possible, but the technique to be used is different not the conventional FFT. Enveloping demodulation technique type is to be used to detect very early stage of bearing failure where the sensors resonant frequency is utilized to pick-up the bearing fault frequency, usually greater than 20KHz. Different vendors have their own way of naming it but it is the enveloping demodulation technique. Yo may check Rockwell Automation's Dynamix 1444 module and the Spike Energy technique.
 
I wanted to know if I could replace a vibrometer brand Eddy Carnet system that includes a signal conditioner and aextension cable and a probe(for 10 meter system) with a Bentley Nevada system with the same specs. It should be noted that I don't want to replace the vibrometer rack, that is, connect the Bentley Nevada system to the vibrometer rack, is this possible?
I would be grateful if someone could answer my question
 
This is a very difficult question to answer because you didn't provide any equipment manufacturer information (name; model numbers, etc.). Bently-Nevada (B-N) manufacture a LOT of different kinds of sensors, not just the proximity type they are most well known for. However, the proximity type they are most well known for uses a proprietary method for monitoring and detecting displacement (proximity), including the power supply from the B-N monitor/rack. So, if you want to connected a B-N sensor to a non B-N monitor/rack you need to know a LOT about the rack and the sensor and how both work.

The best suggestion we can make is to work with your potential supplier(s) of vibration sensors to determine if what you want to do is possible. Be prepared with as much information (data sheets and model numbers) as possible to give to the potential supplier(s) so they can do a proper assessment and provide you with good information. A good salesperson (and there are some VERY good salespeople out there in every industry) will be happy to help you understand if their equipment will interface with other manufacturers' equipment (since in this case that is the main question). They are (or should be) very interested in developing new relationships with Customers who will buy the products they sell. The really good ones will even recommend another possible source of equipment which might work for your application. Many of the larger manufacturers' representative organizations have application engineering departments with people who do just this type of analysis every day--it's part of their job description. This is a resource which should never be overlooked when one is trying to work through a problem.

AND, be prepared to describe the issue you are trying to solve in detail--because sometimes one little detail can make all the difference in the solution!

Best of luck!
 
tha
This is a very difficult question to answer because you didn't provide any equipment manufacturer information (name; model numbers, etc.). Bently-Nevada (B-N) manufacture a LOT of different kinds of sensors, not just the proximity type they are most well known for. However, the proximity type they are most well known for uses a proprietary method for monitoring and detecting displacement (proximity), including the power supply from the B-N monitor/rack. So, if you want to connected a B-N sensor to a non B-N monitor/rack you need to know a LOT about the rack and the sensor and how both work.

The best suggestion we can make is to work with your potential supplier(s) of vibration sensors to determine if what you want to do is possible. Be prepared with as much information (data sheets and model numbers) as possible to give to the potential supplier(s) so they can do a proper assessment and provide you with good information. A good salesperson (and there are some VERY good salespeople out there in every industry) will be happy to help you understand if their equipment will interface with other manufacturers' equipment (since in this case that is the main question). They are (or should be) very interested in developing new relationships with Customers who will buy the products they sell. The really good ones will even recommend another possible source of equipment which might work for your application. Many of the larger manufacturers' representative organizations have application engineering departments with people who do just this type of analysis every day--it's part of their job description. This is a resource which should never be overlooked when one is trying to work through a problem.

AND, be prepared to describe the issue you are trying to solve in detail--because sometimes one little detail can make all the difference in the solution!

Best of luck!
 
I wanted to know if I could replace a vibrometer brand Eddy Carnet system that includes a signal conditioner and aextension cable and a probe(for 10 meter system) with a Bentley Nevada system with the same specs. It should be noted that I don't want to replace the vibrometer rack, that is, connect the Bentley Nevada system to the vibrometer rack, is this possible?
I would be grateful if someone could answer my question
Yes you should be able to do it. If your incremental scale factor, frequency response range, linear range, calibrated to target material and temperature specs matches then you should have no problem doing it.
 
I'm going to go with WTF's Response. I had a Bently Nevada Sesmic probe on a Cooling Tower Fan that the Harmonics, Frequency could not be filtered out to be able to use all of the System. Wound up monitoring only the end Fans of the Tower. I believe that was a Bently 1900/65 system...
Next one was a Replacement for a Metrix Probe on a GE Gas Turbine Frame 7EA. After 2 weeks of Monitoring this equipment with standard equipment an Oscilliscope was put on it. The Metrix probe was doing its job, the Bently Nevada 3500 system card was 1 character off on the Manufactuer's P/N for the installed card. 2 weeks to get the correct card out of Minden. The B/N card address was different and the slot change parameters had to be all reconfigured in the DCS..
I have to close this with giving Bently Nevada credit for repairing it.
WTF, Attention and Experience concluded both of these problems above. 35 years for me and 32 years for the Bently man. I'm now retired. Power Plant- Lakeland, Florida
Happy Friday to all..
 
Hi All,

I am looking for a solution to predict bearing failure for a slow machine (rotation filling machine) used in food industrial.

The application is to put a vibration sensor on a very slow machine to monitor the bearing failure, the problem is technically can we pick bearing failure if the machine is very slow? if there is away can you guide me which sensor in terms of frequency etc. or if there is any documents for slow machine vibration monitor.

Thank you in advance and I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards
Hi there,

I understand your concern about monitoring bearing failure in a slow-rotating filling machine used in the food industry. It's true that detecting bearing problems can be challenging in slow-speed applications, but it's definitely achievable with the right approach.

Here are some key points to consider:

1. Sensor selection:

For slow-speed machines, traditional vibration sensors with low frequency response might not be sensitive enough to pick up early signs of bearing wear. Instead, consider these options:

  1. Low-frequency accelerometers: These sensors have a wider frequency range and are specifically designed for slow-speed applications. Look for models with a sensitivity down to 0.5 Hz or lower.
  2. Proximity probes: These sensors measure the relative displacement between the shaft and bearing housing, which can be indicative of bearing wear and looseness. They are especially useful for large, slow-speed machines.
  3. Eddy current sensors: These sensors detect changes in the magnetic field caused by cracks or other defects in the bearing race. They are non-contact and offer high sensitivity, making them suitable for slow-speed applications.

2. Frequency analysis:

Traditional vibration analysis techniques might not be effective for slow-speed machines. Instead, you might need to consider:

  1. Envelope analysis: This technique extracts the modulation frequencies caused by rolling element defects in the bearing. It can be helpful in identifying early signs of bearing wear even in slow-speed applications.
  2. Cepstrum analysis: This technique analyzes the cepstrum, which is the power spectrum of the logarithm of the power spectrum. It can be used to identify specific bearing fault frequencies even when they are masked by noise.
3. Data analysis and interpretation:

Analyzing and interpreting vibration data from slow-speed machines requires expertise and specialized software. Consider using condition monitoring systems that offer built-in algorithms for slow-speed bearing fault diagnosis.

Here are some additional resources that you might find helpful:

Vibration Sensor for Low Speed Rotating Machinery: https://www.controlsdrivesautomation.com/low-speed-machinery-vibration-sensor
A Guide to Vibration Sensors for Motors: https://elbadelnews.com/Guide-to-Vibration-Sensors-for-Motors-Pruftechnik-Blog-974-386405.html
Remember, even with slow-speed machines, early detection of bearing failure is crucial to prevent costly downtime and product contamination. Choose the right sensor and analysis techniques, and seek professional guidance if needed, to ensure optimal performance and safety in your food processing operation.

Best regards,
Brian Bertrand
Mechanical Engineer
 
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