mark V control system <S >

We have Mark V turbine control system for our Frame 6 GAS turbine. after rebooting, the <S> processor, it is not coming to A7 state. it is showing A6 state.

Kindly suggest some check points.
 
Any diagnostic alarm on any processor displayed ...

Is that an I OR HMI installed...

The normal I/O status of each I/O card contained in or associated with a processor in a SPEEDTRONIC® Mark V control panel is A7. After being powered up or rebooted, I/O cards will progress through various I/O states, from A1 to A7, if the initialization sequence is successful. (During the initialization sequence not all I/O statuses are displayed.) After being powered up or rebooted, all of the I/O cards contained in or associated with a processor must reach I/O status A6 before any of them or the processor will go to I/O status A7 When any I/O card fails to reach I/O status A6 after it has been powered up or rebooted, it will prevent the processor from reaching I/O status A7. When troubleshooting a processor which has failed to reach I/O status A7 after being powered up or rebooted, the I/O card or cards which are preventing the processor from reaching A7 must first be determined.


When powering up a Mark V control panel for the first time, or after ePROM’s have been changed, at least one of the control processors in a TMR panel (either <R>, <S>, or <T>) must reach I/O status A7 before the <C> communications processor will go to I/O status A7. This is also true for the <D> backup communications processor, if provided. In a SIMPLEX Mark V control panel, the <R> control processor must reach the I/O status A7 before the communications processor (s) will go the I/O status A7.


The LCC Display to Determine which I/O Card(s) is (are) at fault

To use the DCC Monitor function of the LCC Display of a processor, press the DCC button of the LCC display keypad (“--186 MONITOR--" will be shown on the LCC Display). Press the DEC button of the keypad until “7>IO STATES" is displayed and then press the ENTER button. The socket number/obj ID (i.e., the processor's internal I/O card address), I/O card name/abbreviation, and I/O status of the card in the first socket will be displayed; successive I/O cards' I/O statuses can be read from the LCC Display by pressing the INC button, until the card name displayed doesn't change (pressing DEC will back up the display to the previous card). Write down the card name and its I/O status for all cards displayed.


So looks like you need to determine which processor is giving a Diagnostic alarm on LCC Display..

Then as I can check on the documents that i got how to troubleshoot till getting A7 status..


I am sure that reading of these notes that i shared here can be helpful!

Any time!
James
 
ControlsGuy25,

thanks for your great supprot, I apologize for the very slow response. We're trying to find fault with our machine.
At first, our machine is in standby state. With all core states A7 and nothing alarm on HMI.
When operating, the turbine trips when the clutch is open 0n 67% With many indications appearing on HMI. After being traced, the voltage on QD1 DTBA does not exist due to a broken fuse. So replace the fuse. After rebooting, the status on Core S remains at A6. We tried to measure the voltage again, +- is 133 VDC, but + ground is -5.6 VDC and - Ground is 139 VDC. We have checked this fault as well and found a short circuit on terminal 16 QD1 DTBA.
After that we reboot again. But the core S is still on the A6. We tried to go to revision panel and found S-TCE1 not detected and core P card TCEA out of sync.
once again thanks for your valuable reply and support.
 
ControlsGuy25,

thanks for your great supprot, I apologize for the very slow response. We're trying to find fault with our machine.
At first, our machine is in standby state. With all core states A7 and nothing alarm on HMI.
When operating, the turbine trips when the clutch is open 0n 67% With many indications appearing on HMI. After being traced, the voltage on QD1 DTBA does not exist due to a broken fuse. So replace the fuse. After rebooting, the status on Core S remains at A6. We tried to measure the voltage again, +- is 133 VDC, but + ground is -5.6 VDC and - Ground is 139 VDC. We have checked this fault as well and found a short circuit on terminal 16 QD1 DTBA.
After that we reboot again. But the core S is still on the A6. We tried to go to revision panel and found S-TCE1 not detected and core P card TCEA out of sync.
once again thanks for your valuable reply and support.
@Abdul majid bakti ,

Thanks for these inputs much appreciated..
Well will do my best to try to support you.. On this issue..

So looks like you detected a ground fault or at least unbala ce voltage and maybe inversed polarity ( still no clear for me) ... Do you confirm on that.. Can you be more explicit on voltage polarity.. Are they correct..

Did you have a read on GE procedure called troubleshooting to A7.....

They are many precious informations there..

You should have a c to Lcc display and know which board give a fault and where to begin to troubleshoot as they are some steps to follow to reach A7 status...

Regards,
James
 
@ControlsGuy25
Thankyou for great support.
The ground fault problem in our unit has been resolved. The disruption is found in JB2 TBC terminal 36 which leads to lube oil tank low temperature. Alaram windows does not provide such information, only provides information 125 VDC ground fault, while this indication is considered normal.

for GE procedure called troubleshooting manual, we don't have it, please send it to my email majidbakti123 [at] gmail.com. Thanks for your help.
we have followed your instructions to check the IO status on the core S and we found:
TCQA -> A6
TCDI -> A6
LCCQ -> A6
DCCQ -> A6
IOMA -> A6
**** -> A1 (here should be TCE1 -> ....)
how to solved it. Do we have to change some cards? Which card should we replace? Or this is a problem with the ribbon cable. Which ribbon cable should we check?
Maybe this is the information we can convey, once again thank you for the support.
 
When downloading TCEA I/O Configuration Constants or after changing TCEA hardware jumper settings, it is necessary to reboot/initialize the TCEA card(s) individually for the changes to become effective (see note below). This is necessary because the TCEA card is not rebooted/initialized when its associated control processor is rebooted.
NOTE
If new TCEA I/O card I/O Configuration Constants are downloaded to a control processor or hardware jumper settings in the TCEA I/O cards are changed, each of the cards must be rebooted. This can be done by one of three methods: shorting test rings TP1 and TP2 on the TCEA card (a warm boot of the TCEA card); unplugging the 125VDC power supply connector in the <PD> core and then plugging it back in (a hard reboot); toggling the TCEA’s switch in the <PD> core (if provided); Rebooting the TCEA’s associated control processor does not reboot or initialize the TCEA card.
 
The TCPA card(s) in <PLU> core (typically provided only in large steam turbine Mark V control panels) must also be rebooted/initialized individually if new TCPA I/O Configuration Constants are downloaded to its associated control processor. This is because the TCPA card is not rebooted/initialized when its associated control processor is given a warm reboot by pressing the RESET button on the DCC card. The TCPA card can be rebooted by either unplugging its 125 V dc power supply wire harness in the <PD> core and then plugging it back in, toggling the control processor’s 125 V dc power supply switch in the <PD> core (if switches are provided in the <PD> core), or unplugging its 125 V dc power supply wire harness on the TCPA card (labeled J7) and then plugging it back in.
The I/O status of individual processor I/O cards can most easily be determined by using the DCC Monitor function of the processor’s LCC Display. Most I/O status problems can be solved using the DCC Monitor function of the LCC Display. The steps described in this procedure should be followed in the order in which they are presented.
 
STEP 1 :
USING THE DCC MONITOR FUNCTION OF THE LCC DISPLAY TO DETERMINE WHICH I/O CARD(S) IS (ARE) AT FAULT
To use the DCC Monitor function of the LCC Display of a processor, press the DCC button of the LCC display keypad (“—186 MONITOR—« will be shown on the LCC Display). Press the DEC button of the keypad until “7>IO STATES » is displayed and then press the ENTER button. The socket number/obj ID (i.e., the processor’s internal I/O card address), I/O card name/abbreviation, and I/O status of the card in the first socket will be displayed ; successive I/O cards’ I/O statuses can be read from the LCC Display by pressing the INC button, until the card name displayed doesn’t change (pressing DEC will back up the display to the previous card). Write down the card name and its I/O status for all cards displayed.
NOTE
References to an IOMA card are actually references to the i80196 microprocessor on the DCC card of the Mark V control processor. (The i80196 is also known as the “I/O Master”.
If card names are displayed properly when scrolling through the DCC Monitor IO STATES function, continue with the trouble shooting procedure by skipping to Step 2, below. Should asterisks or random characters be displayed for any card name, the DCC’s i80186 microprocessor is unable to access and/or communicate with the card and such a condition should be resolved first. Table I, below, is a list of the socket numbers/obj ID numbers (Mark V internal addresses) and card names in the order they should appear when scrolling through the DCC
<C><Q><D>
<01>TCCA<01>TCQA<01>TCCA
<02>TCCB*<02>TCQB*<08>LCCD
<04>TCDA<04>TCD1<12>DCCD
<08>LCCC<05>TCD2*<13>IOMA
<12>DCCC<08>LCCQ
<13>IOMA<12>DCCQ
<13>IOMA
<15>TCE1
<16>TCE2**
<17>TCE3**
<14>TCPA
Table I.
Processor cards which may be shown in the DCC IO STATUS function on the LCC display ; Socket Number / Object ID number for each card is shown to the left of the card.
[* Optional card ; ** Card required only for a SIMPLEX configuration]
Monitor IO STATES function of the various processors. Power down the processor and check both ends of all ribbon cables and wire harnesses attached to the card. Unplug and reseat the cables and harnesses, checking the label on the cable/harness against the receptacle ID silk–screened on the card. Also check for bent or broken pins on socketed microchips on the card in question and on the DCC card and LCC card of the processor. Also check the orientation of the socketed microchips (the notch of the microchip must be on the same side of the socket as the notch on the socket). Reapply power to the processor ; if the processor does not reach I/O status A7, continue with the troubleshooting procedure.
Next, reformat the EEPROM of the processor and then re–download all the EEPROM sections. (Reformatting EEPROM removes all references to EEPROM section information stored on the EEPROM chip—similar to deleting a file on a disk ; the information is still there until it is overwritten, but the reference to the information is deleted.) Use the EEPROM Downloader to download only the EEPROM section format to the processor and then perform a hard reboot of the processor. After the processor has been rebooted, the LCC Display will probably only indicate I/O status A4, along with several error messages such as DEFAULT SYS, BAD MASTER SEQ, IO CFG FAILED, etc. ; this is normal. (Since reformatting the EEPROM effectively deletes all information which was stored there, it is not found during the initialization sequence and consequently messages indicating the absence of the information will be displayed.) Next, use the EEPROM Downloader to download all EEPROM sections to the processor, and then perform a hard reboot of the processor. If this fails to enable the processor to reach I/O status A7, continue with the troubleshooting procedure.
 
I/O states less than A7 but above A4 are usually indicative of improper I/O configuration software PROM revision levels entered into the I/O Configurator for that card or an improper I/O card configuration file peresent in the unit–specific PROM subdirectory on the <I>. (The procedure for checking the I/O card configuration file is explained in Step 4.) To begin the process of comparing the actual I/O configuration software PROM revision levels against the downloaded PROM revision levels, either use the Unit Card Identification program (CARD_ID.EXE) on the <I> or check the revision levels specified on the PROM chip label(s) on the PROM chips on the I/O card. When using the Unit Card Identification screen, write down the revision levels of each card. (The major revision is the digit to the left of the decimal point in the parentheses ; the minor revision is the digit to the right of the decimal point in the parentheses.) When checking the PROM revision level on the chips’ labels, the last two characters of the chip’s part number can be translated into the PROM revision level. For example, DS200TCQAF1AED would indicate that I/O configuration software on the PROM is major revision 5, minor revision 4 (from the last two characters of the part number, ED), or revision 5.4 of TCQA I/O configuration software. To determine the downloaded I/O configuration software PROM revision levels, enter the I/O Configurator and click on the target of the I/O card in question. The first screen of each I/O card is where the PROM revision level is specified for downloading purposes.
Compare the actual PROM revision level to the downloaded PROM revision level ; they should be the same for proper operation of the I/O card. If they do not agree, change the revision levels on the I/O card’s I/O configuration screen to match the actual revision levels reported by the CARD_ID program or read from the PROM label. Save the changes and exit the I/O Configurator. Use the EEPROM Downloader to download the new I/O configuration to the processor, performing a hard reboot of the processor after the download. The processor should reach I/O status A7 after rebooting ; if the processor still fails to reach I/O status A7, continue with the troubleshooting procedure.
<C> Processor
<D> Processor<Q> Processor
ePROM
Configuration FileePROMConfiguration FileePROMConfiguration File
GASCDCCB_CFG.DATGASCDCCB_CFG.DATGASQDCCQ_CFG.DAT
STMCDCCB_CFG.DATSTMCDCCB_CFG.DATSTMQDCCQ_CFG.DAT
LSTCDCCB_CFG.DATLSTCDCCB_CFG.DATLSTQDCCQ_CFG.DAT
LMGCDCCB_CFG.DATLMGCDCCB_CFG.DATLMGQDCCQ_CFG.DAT
IOMACOMA_CFG.DATIOMADOMA_CFG.DATIOMAIOMA_CFG.DAT
DENCIO_CFG.DATDENCIO_CFG.DATDENQIO_CFG.DAT
TCCATCCA_CFG.DATTCCATCCD_CFG.DATTCQATCQA_CFG.DAT
TCCBTCCB_CFG.DATTCQBTCQB_CFG.DAT
DSPBTCCB_CFG.DATDSPCTCQB_CFG.DAT
TCDACCDn_CFG.DATTCDATCDn_CFG.DAT
TCEATCEn_CFG.DAT
TCPATCPA_CFG.DAT
Table III. Typical Card Configuration Files
 
Based on the information provided by the original poster, it would appear that <S> is unable to communicate with its associated TCEA card in Loc. 1 of <P> core, usually identified as <Y>. <S> uses its IONET cable to communicate with its TCEA card AND its TCDA card in <QD1> (and <QD2> if so equipped). It appears <S> can see its TCDA card in <QD1>, so something is wrong with the TCEA card in Loc. 3 of <PD>. Do you see any of the LED bar graph of the TCEA in Loc. 3 of <PD> on/flashing? Are they flashing in exactly the same sequence as the LED bar graphs of the TCEA cards both Loc’s. 1 and 5 of <P>?

There should switches in <PD> For the power to each of the TCEA cards in <PD>, usually along the left side of the printed circuit card in <PD>. I think the switches are labeled J7X, J7Y and J7Z. Next to the switches there should be fuses. If there are no LED bar graph lights on or flashing on the TCEA card in Loc. 3 (<Y>) you need to check the fuses for J7Y. If the LED bar graph lights of the TCEA in Loc. 3 (<Y>) are on/flashing then you may just need to switch J7Y off for 15 seconds or so and then switch it back on.

Please write back to let us know how you are proceeding!
 
It's important to understand that replacing a TCEA card is a very precise task--in that there are hardware ("Berg") jumpers on the TCEA cards that have to be in precise positions for each of the three TCEA cards (in Locations 1,-2 & -3). It is recommended this be done when the turbine IS NOT running. It IS NOT necessary to power down the associated processor; in this thread, <S> processor is not communicating with (cannot recognize) its associated TCEA card, which is in Loc. 3. So, in this thread it is not necessary to power down <S> processor to replace its associated TCEA card, in Loc. 3.) It IS necessary to remove the power to the TCEA card in Loc. 3--and that is usually done by opening the switch in the <PD> core, or on very early Mark V turbine control panels it may require unplugging the J7Y cable from the printed circuit card in the <PD> core.

When replacing a TCEA card, remove the card being replaced and record (write down the position of each jumper) the position of EVERY hardware ("Berg") jumper on the card!!! This is very important as there are some jumpers on each TCEA card in each Location in <P> that are--and MUST BE--in unique positions. For example, one can't use the jumper positions from Loc. 1 or Loc. 5 to set the jumpers on the TCEA card being installed in Loc. 3--one must use the as-found jumper positions from the TCEA card that is removed from Loc. 3 when setting the jumpers on the new TCEA card being installed in Loc. 3.

DO NOT use ANY other information about what the settings of TCEA jumpers should be--not those in any manual or on any screen on any Mark V operator interface (unless it is certain they have been previously VERIFIED to be correct--and most ARE NOT and WERE NEVER verified to be correct).

With the new TCEA card next to the old TCEA card, put the hardware ("Berg") jumpers on the new TCEA card in the exact same positions as on the old TCEA card (the TCEA card being removed). (Actually, this should be done NOT just for TCEA cards, but for any card being replaced in a Mark V turbine control panel.)

Once all of the jumpers on the new TCEA card have been put in their correct positions, it's always a good idea to verify they are in the correct positions--by checking each jumper's position against its position on the old TCEA card.

Install the new TCEA card and reconnect all cables and connectors. It is an EXCELLENT IDEA to use a little conductive grease on each and every connector when installing the new TCEA card!!! A little grease is a great thing; a LOT of grease IS NOT a great thing...!) A light coating of grease on the male end of the connector before inserting the connector is all that's required. Using care, unseat the connector and re-seat it a couple of time to make sure the conductive grease gets spread around.

Then all one needs to do at this point is power-up the new TCEA card and it should go to I/O Status A7. When the TCEA card is booting up after being powered-up it's RAM is empty, and because its RAM is empty it knows to go to the EEPROM chip on the DCC/SDCC card in its associated processor to get the information it needs for configuration.

IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO DOWNLOAD ANY INFORMATION TO THE TCEA CARD WHEN REPLACING A TCEA CARD--IT WILL GO TO THE EEPROM CHIP ON THE DCC/SDCC CARD IN ITS ASSOCIATED PROCESSOR TO GET THE CONFIGURATION INFORMATION IT NEEDS. It is not necessary to use the EEPROM Downloader to download any information to the TCEA card--in fact, it's NOT possible to download directly to the TCEA card. All the information the TCEA card needs was already downloaded to and exists on the EEPROM chip.​

So, if the original poster is replacing the TCEA card, or feels it is necessary to replace the TCEA card--this is the proper method for replacing the TCEA card. The TCEA cards are, by design, supposed to be virtually independent of the control processors--they perform the "emergency" ("back-up") overspeed protection, so they have to be independent (to a certain extent). Independence means they make their own decisions about overspeed condition and can trip the unit independently of the control processors. They perform other functions, such as synchronization and flame detection (for gas turbines) and rate-of-speed change detection/protection--but their primary function is overspeed detection/protection. They communicate with their associated control processor via each control processor's IONET--a twisted, unshielded pair cable that runs from the control processor (the TCQC, I think) to the TCEA, and then to a TCDA in <QD1> (and thence to a TCDA in <QD2>, if so equipped).

Hope this helps--and I sincerely hope the original poster writes back to tell us that everything is fine and the turbine is up and running now! Soon.
 
@ControlsGuy25 , @CSA
Forgive me for the very slow response to update information related to this disruption.
thank you very much for the support and steps troubleshooting that has been informed.
in recent days we are trying to resolve the disruption in our unit. the status of A6 on the core <S> is normal. the problem on ribbon cable from TCQA to TCTG core <P>. initially we thought the problem on the TCEA card slot 3, after we replaced. the problem still arises. we checked on IONET on TCQC as well, but the result is altogether.
once again thanks for totaly support, thankyou very much @ControlsGuy25 , you are very good in solving this disorder. thank you also for @CSA for support, I also read some of your trends and comments on several forums. I put it all together to resolve the disruption in our unit.
 
Abdul majid bakti,

Well, ..., thanks for the feedback. I think.

I don't actually completely understand what you wrote, but it seems the problem was something to do with the IONET cable (a two-wire, untwisted pair) running from the TCQC in <S> to the TCTG in Loc. 3 of <P>, and then to the TCDA in Loc. 2 of <QD1>. (It sure would be nice to know what the problem with the section of the very simple, two-wire, untwisted cable running between the TCTG of <S> and the TCEA in Loc. 3 was.... Did you replace the cable? Or.?.?.? )

Anyway, we are happy the problem is resolved (<S> is back at I/O State A7), happy we could help and grateful for the feedback.
 
Abdul majid bakti
@ControlsGuy25 , @CSA
Forgive me for the very slow response to update information related to this disruption.
thank you very much for the support and steps troubleshooting that has been informed.
in recent days we are trying to resolve the disruption in our unit. the status of A6 on the core <S> is normal. the problem on ribbon cable from TCQA to TCTG core <P>. initially we thought the problem on the TCEA card slot 3, after we replaced. the problem still arises. we checked on IONET on TCQC as well, but the result is altogether.
once again thanks for totaly support, thankyou very much @ControlsGuy25 , you are very good in solving this disorder. thank you also for @CSA for support, I also read some of your trends and comments on several forums. I put it all together to resolve the disruption in our unit.
Abdulmajid bakti.

Thanks for the feedback!
Well is that issue resolved or... Still pending...

Regards
James
 
CSA,

I am sorry because dont have a good english. I replace the DENET cable with 16 pin from JD socket in TCQA core <S> to JDS socket in TCTG/S/L core <P> - in loc. 4 with new cable and fasten back, we have tried to rlease fist DENET from core <R> ( normal stage), and the stage stop on A6 and not detec TCEA card. We have checked the IONET cable, and tray to release it. But it's not give effect to IO states.

Maybe thats the condition. Once again, thanks very much for your support.
 
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