MOOG IGV F8 Fault

Hi.

Machine model : MS5002E / MOOG Servo Drives Model : DS2110

2021.06.20 IGV Happened F8 fault again in normal operation and IGV locked in around -1.5DEG in 23MW

2019.Nov, 2020.May, 2020.Jun IGV F8 Fault in normal operation and IGV locked in around -1.5DEG
So, I replaced complete IGV system including driver, actuator and resolver cables.
But, IGV driver F8 Fault happened again after 1 year.

From MOOG manual, F8 fault is related to resolver hardware position feedback error and could be caused by resolver cable issue.
But, there were no abnormalities in the resolver cable after inspection.

I replaced all the related equipment(IGV Driver, actuator, resolver cable), but is there reason why the same problem occurs?
Have any of you had a similar experience ?

If the IGV operation is fixed after F8 fault alarm occurs, GTG must be shut down for master reset.
Compressor surge occurs due to IGV locking during GTG shut down.
Damage to the equipment is serious and stable shut down procedure is required when a fault alarm occurs.

best regard.
 
Mr. Lee,

Are you referring to the actuator on the IGVs for the gas turbine axial compressor IGVs? Or the IGVs on the driven compressor (the one driven by the gas turbine’s LP shaft)?

GE typically uses a hydraulic actuator and electro-hydraulic servo valve to position the gas turbine axial compressor IGVs. Has the gas turbine at your facility been upgraded to some new electric actuator made by MOOG? What is the turbine control system?

Methinks the unit may not have a standard gas turbine axial compressor IGV actuator, or GE is using a new style of electric actuator for the gas turbine axial compressor IGVs. Or you are referring to the driven compressor IGVs and actuator.

If you are referring to the gas turbine axial compressor IGVs the reason electric actuators are not usually used for gas turbine axial compressor IGVs is because of the heat in the turbine compartment. Most electric actuators (but not all electric actuators) can’t stand the heat of the turbine compartment environment for very long. It could be that someone tried this actuator and it’s not suitable for the environment. Or, it’s excessively hot in the area of the gas turbine axial compressor IGV actuator for some reason.

Personally, I would be consulting the MOG manual for the temperature rating/range for the actuator—and installing a couple of temporary T/Cs in the immediate area of the actuator and maybe the cable and monitoring temperatures closely and comparing them to the actuator temperatures rating/range.

If the actuator in question is used on the driven compressor IGVs then there’s probably not much we can offer in the way of help—though, it will be a good idea to also monitor temperatures in the area of the actuator and compare them to the temperature rating/range in the MOOG manual.

Please write back to let us know which IGVs you are referring to and if it’s the gas turbine axial compressor IGVs please attach a photo of the actuator to this thread. Many people would be interested to see this servo drive being used for gas turbine axial compressor IGVs.

You are correct; stopping or tripping the unit to reset the actuator is probably going to (eventually) cause some serious damage to the unit. You should be working with the control system supplier to develop some kind of modification or work-around to prevent stopping or tripping the unit when the fault occurs.

Hope this helps!!
 
Hi, Thank you for answer.

Our GTG was provided by Baker Hughes company. Model number is MS5002E. (twin-shaft)
It was installed in 2019.
Model of actuator supplied by MOOG company is L875K60X and operation temperature is -40ºC to 120ºC.
GTG Turbine compartment : enclosure inside setting temperature High : 90ºC, High High : 95ºC

I'm wondering if there are any cases of GTG ESD for reasons caused by IGV fault alarm, except for our company.
In our country, there are 3 GTG installed MOOG IGV Driver.
 

Attachments

Hi, Thank you for answer.

Our GTG was provided by Baker Hughes company. Model number is MS5002E. (twin-shaft)
It was installed in 2019.
Model of actuator supplied by MOOG company is L875K60X and operation temperature is -40ºC to 120ºC.
GTG Turbine compartment : enclosure inside setting temperature High : 90ºC, High High : 95ºC

I'm wondering if there are any cases of GTG ESD for reasons caused by IGV fault alarm, except for our company.
In our country, there are 3 GTG installed MOOG IGV Driver.
Our company uses this model of GT with electric actuator MOOG, in our case any fault of MOOG is ESD. Do you think it is abnormal?
Do you have control specification for your unit?
If you have it, please share with me
 
Mr. Lee,

Are you referring to the temperature rating for the servo drive in the third attachment—it’s not likely mounted in the turbine compartment but is connected to the electric actuator in the first attachment via the cable the manufacturer’s manual says may be the cause of the fault.

In my experience I have rarely seen turbine compartment temperatures less than 75-80 deg C on a normally operating GE-design Frame 5 heavy duty gas turbine unless the ambient temperatures are very low (near or below freezing) and the load is low and the unit has just been started—especially if the unit has DLN combustors.

Also in my experience MOOG is a very good company to ask for assistance with an issue with their equipment.—if you’re not getting cooperation from the equipment packager you think you should be. I would think BH-GE or whatever they’re calling themselves these days would be very interested in this issue and working to prevent the possibility of major equipment damage it might cause….

As would MOOG.
 
Hi.

Machine model : MS5002E / MOOG Servo Drives Model : DS2110

2021.06.20 IGV Happened F8 fault again in normal operation and IGV locked in around -1.5DEG in 23MW

2019.Nov, 2020.May, 2020.Jun IGV F8 Fault in normal operation and IGV locked in around -1.5DEG
So, I replaced complete IGV system including driver, actuator and resolver cables.
But, IGV driver F8 Fault happened again after 1 year.

From MOOG manual, F8 fault is related to resolver hardware position feedback error and could be caused by resolver cable issue.
But, there were no abnormalities in the resolver cable after inspection.

I replaced all the related equipment(IGV Driver, actuator, resolver cable), but is there reason why the same problem occurs?
Have any of you had a similar experience ?

If the IGV operation is fixed after F8 fault alarm occurs, GTG must be shut down for master reset.
Compressor surge occurs due to IGV locking during GTG shut down.
Damage to the equipment is serious and stable shut down procedure is required when a fault alarm occurs.

best regard.
Hi Mr. Lee,

Did you find a solution for your issue? Please share. Thanks.

BR
Vlad
 
Hi Mr. Lee,

Did you find a solution for your issue? Please share. Thanks.

BR
Vlad
I'm the man working with Mr. Lee.
We are still struggling with this issue and found the driver surface temperature was quite high (max. 55 deg C) even though ambient temp was 25~30 deg C
We checked voltage but nothing special..

We wonder what made that temperature so high even this driver installed outside of turbine enclosure.
 
I'm the man working with Mr. Lee.
We are still struggling with this issue and found the driver surface temperature was quite high (max. 55 deg C) even though ambient temp was 25~30 deg C
We checked voltage but nothing special..

We wonder what made that temperature so high even this driver installed outside of turbine enclosure.
Hello, Mr. Kim,

I'm not sure if 55 deg C is too high for this equipment.
Anyway, if you are still struggling with some issues during the operation, please let me inform you that the company I work at - Diakont - manufactures and supplies electric actuators for turbine applications, including GT IGV. We are able to provide the necessary support to our customers.
Please contact me directly - [email protected].

BR
Vlad
 
I'm the man working with Mr. Lee.
We are still struggling with this issue and found the driver surface temperature was quite high (max. 55 deg C) even though ambient temp was 25~30 deg C
We checked voltage but nothing special..

We wonder what made that temperature so high even this driver installed outside of turbine enclosure.
Hi

the best way to know why such high temperatures on this area..is ti consult /connect to Moog windrive software

Did you ever tried that solution...
 
You right to say that resolver /cable even changed did not make things better ...

There is regeneration resistor on such device ussually can you confirm for this one..

Also F8 fault can be related to the "overtemperature" that you constated 55°C
Question
Is there kind of motor overload protection integrated to this driver...
Can this overtemperature come from the power amplifier bridge ...?
 
You right to say that resolver /cable even changed did not make things better ...

There is regeneration resistor on such device ussually can you confirm for this one..

Also F8 fault can be related to the "overtemperature" that you constated 55°C
Question
Is there kind of motor overload protection integrated to this driver...
Can this overtemperature come from the power amplifier bridge ...?
Hello
Thank you for detail information.

1. Yes, we did connect windrive s/w and share it with moog but they also confused.(attach)
It listed about over temp and voltage but not sure which is related root cause. There were lots of alarms not even this page.

2. Could you share your manual because what I got is quite simple.
if you don't mind, send it to below please. I want to study that first.
[email protected]

3. This kind of electric driver is very first type for us, we are not familiar with this. So I can't answer you the last question.
 

Attachments

Hello
Thank you for detail information.

1. Yes, we did connect windrive s/w and share it with moog but they also confused.(attach)
It listed about over temp and voltage but not sure which is related root cause. There were lots of alarms not even this page.

2. Could you share your manual because what I got is quite simple.
if you don't mind, send it to below please. I want to study that first.
[email protected]

3. This kind of electric driver is very first type for us, we are not familiar with this. So I can't answer you the last question.
Hello

Thank you for these clarifications...

Will share with you the mentionned OEM manual..

James
 
Hello
Thank you for detail information.

1. Yes, we did connect windrive s/w and share it with moog but they also confused.(attach)
It listed about over temp and voltage but not sure which is related root cause. There were lots of alarms not even this page.

2. Could you share your manual because what I got is quite simple.
if you don't mind, send it to below please. I want to study that first.
[email protected]

3. This kind of electric driver is very first type for us, we are not familiar with this. So I can't answer you the last question.
Hello

Would you give us an update on this issue ...

Also a feedback on the manual that i shared regarding the troublesshooting on this issue...

Regards,
James
 
Hello

Would you give us an update on this issue ...

Also a feedback on the manual that i shared regarding the troublesshooting on this issue...

Regards,
James
Hello

Thanks for sharing manual.
We did download the fault history again and share with GE engineer.

Few days ago our GT has stopped for another inspection and F8 fault has reset through master reset.
But this f8 fault occurred very irregularly so no one knows when will happen again.. (this was our 3~4th error after reset)
Anyway we did all what we can do and will update any progress..
 
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