# Wonderware v RSView

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#### Weir, Bryan

I know that this has probably been a topic in the past but I am currently considering Wonderware or RSView as MMI's in our robotic assembly operation. Can anyone briefly share their
experiences with these and recommend one or the other?

Thank you,

Bryan Weir
Equipment Development Engineering
Polaroid UK. Ltd.

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#### Robert W Dannenfelser, Jr.

You might ask which package is being used by Polaroid plants in the US?
What has their experience been with that package? Then, please, share
that information with all of us!

Thanks,
Bob Dannenfelser
Mottley Air Power

C

#### chris waters

I have used Wonderware (version 6) quite a bit and RSView a little. My impression is that if your project requires little in the way of "scripting" - or specialized functions that are not directly available from the "toolboxes" of each software package, then Wonderware might come out on top because it probably has the most mature developer's interface. However, if your application requires some degree of "control" in the HMI where you might have to do some list processing or intelligent automatic selection, or you need to automatically acquire data from a remote database or OPC server, then RSview - by virtue of its VBA scripting - is probably the better choice. If that sounds like your application (with automatic decision making taking place in the HMI) I would also consider Intellution's iFix 2.2. It includes VBA as its scripting language, and allows you to use a limited variety of readily available Active X controls to do some fairly sophisticated processing, and display.

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#### Glass, Philip

I've used both pretty extensively.
I've had good and bad experiences with both [email protected] which package to recommend would depend on your layout.

How many I/O?
How distributed?
Scalability?
Reliability?
Complexity?
Level of programming expertise of the developer?
PLC's, and if so, what kind?
Budget?
Time frame?

If you can answer some of these questions, I can make a clearer recommendation.

Philip L. Glass
Computer geek
Brown and Caldwell

A

#### Anthony Kerstens

Wonderware is a very mature product with a lot of
good functionality, and their tech support is excellent. Don't know much about RSView, except that if you're using AB processors, and RSLogix5/500/5000 that integration is somewhat simplified. Also, Rockwell tech support has to be paid for and maintained.

Anthony Kerstens P.Eng.

B

#### Bill Sturm

I have not used Wonderware, but I am not impressed with RSView. It is what I call typical bloatware, big, slow, and somewhat buggy.

Keep in mind that what I typically use are custom VB or C programs that are written for a specific application and load and run very fast and are
thoroughly debugged. Going from that to any SCADA/MMI package may be culture shock for me.

If it were me, I would throw away my RSView experience and try Wonderware. Maybe it is better, or maybe it is more of the same.

Bill

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#### Anthony Kerstens

Starting with InTouch 7.0, InTouch is an ActiveX container. Not having tried this myself, I don't know what restrictions there are on this, but it seems that InTouch could benefit as well from VB. In fact, InTouch includes form Wizards in the form of bullet lists and pull-downs.

Anthony Kerstens P.Eng.

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#### Gary Hoskins

Wonderware's Intouch 7.0 is an excellent program, I have been using their products since 1990 and built HMI Applications in both the Water and
Wastewater Fields. The current application I am working on monitors and has control capability for 533 Waste Water Lift Stations. The application will eventually monitor and control approximately 650 - 700 Lift Stations.
The application currently has 10500 points and will eventually have between 150,000 to 200,000 tags. It is a large application. The
Application has about 1500 Screens and has extensive script logic. If you would like more details on the application feel free to e-mail privately at mailto:[email protected]. I only include this so you will get a feel for my knowledge of the Intouch program.

Some points you will want to consider in your decision

1. Size of the Application:
- Number of Analog Tags?
- Number of Discrete Tags?
- Number of Internal Tags?
- Is there a limit on the number of External Tagnames?
- Screens needed Alarm Summaries, Alarm History, System Screens, Trend Screens, Detailed Process Screens, etc...?
- Number and Complexity of Reports Generated from the system?
- Alarm Management needs? This can be critical in larger applications.
- Data Historian needs?
- Custom Scripting needs and complexity?
- Complexity of Screens?

2. Security Issues
- Level or User based?
- Does it work with the Operating System (Win95, Win98 or WinNT)?

3. Make and number of PLC's you want to interface with:
- Will there be multiple PLC manufacturers? Check on the Drivers before you make your decision. If AB is your primary PLC then RSView may work better for you as you will have one vendor to deal with on your HMI, Server and PLC's.

4. Communications Issues
- Drivers for the Major PLC manufacturers in case you later decide to use a different PLC manufacturer.
- What type DDE, FastDDE, Suitelink (Wonderwares), OPC etc...?
- Is it open or proprietary?

5. Can the program interface easily with other types of programs examples being
Call Management Software, Facility Management Software, Large Data Historians, other programs as the need arises?

This list is not comprehensive by any means and I am sure others on the list can add to this list based on their experience. The company I work for is looking at all these issues very seriously right now.
It is better to have an extensive checkout list before you buy and develop. Once you commit it is very expensive and labor intensive to switch
after the fact. Don't take the salesman promises without proof.
Unfortunately I do not have any experience with RSView, hopefully others on the list can help you there.

The other major players are:

WinCC
Intellution
CiTect

Good Luck on making your choice.

Gary Hoskins, Jacksonville Florida

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#### Anthony Kerstens

More of the same. However, WW does have
EXCELLENT tech support.

Anthony Kerstens P.Eng.

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#### USWest

I have been working for various system integrators for the past 13 or so years. I have used many different MMI (HMI). From a
development standpoint, I like RSView - especially with their VBA. I have found Wonderware to be more stable while operating.
RSView still has some quirks while operating.

M

#### Michel A. Levesque, ing.

I have been using RSView since the 4.x versions, and I also used ControlView (no age jokes please) and the ControlView Builder (on Win 3.xx). Since RSView used the core of ControlView, it is by no
means "new". The core of RSView has been around since before Intouch. But, enough of the history lesson.

The biggest project I've been involved with on RSView is about 30,000 tags scanned every second, with about 1000 graphics (lots of popups, maybe 150 full screens) The hardest working program
I've been involved with is about 8,000 tags every 100ms with some very loaded graphics pages. This RSView was also a RAD (RSView Active Display) server and a PDC/BDC on the network (min. 60%
CPU utilisation continuously...on a PII 450mhz which was the best at the time). The performance was a very acceptable 1-3 seconds from a pushbutton callup to a fully animated page (300+
animations)on the server. A 2-4 seconds (callup to full 300+ animation) was also achieved on the RAD client.

Communications is easy to set up. You can use CF-text DDE, XL-table DDE, FastDDE, ADvanced DDE, OPC and if your using AB PLC's then you can use direct drivers thru RSLinx. It even allows a
hotswitch of nodes.

VBA really allows you to push the typical MMI envelope, but the native functions can provide all the functionality needed in an MMI such as recipe management, SPC, messenging, logging, as well as good graphics, alarming (the best I've seen anyway), a logical tag database, event handlers and derived tags. This is all included
with the package! I won't get into linking to other RSI packages, too much info and not relevant here.

It's a solid MMI package. The only serious problems I've had are Windows DLL hell issues (will they ever end); some memory leaks in the old versions (fixed now) and a funky RAD client/server issue (also fixed now).

I can honestly say that there is not one project that I cannot do with RSView32. Highly recommended.

Michel A. Levesque eng., mcp
Directeur Bureau Montreal
AIA Inc.
[email protected]

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#### Manuel Martinez

Here is a URL with a plethora of HMI's. Some large, some small.
But, a better list than just the major players.

--
Manuel Martinez
Technical Sales Engineer
ONSPEC Automation Solutions
3320 Data Drive
Suite 350
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670

(916) 853 - 2590 Phone
(916) 853 - 2585 Fax
http://www.ONSPEC.com

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#### Walt Boyes

Until I saw this post, I wasn't even aware that OnSpec still existed. OnSpec is a classic example of the fact that "being first" does not
guarantee success. Wonderware and Intellution cashed in on the market OnSpec created as far back as 1983. I think that was the first time I saw an OnSpec system. Gosh, what a trip down
memory lane, and what a salutory lesson for leading-edge creators and entrepreneurs.

Walt Boyes

----------------------------------------------------------
Walt Boyes--MarketingPractice Consultants
21118 SE 278th Place - Maple Valley, WA 98038
425-432-8262 home office - 253-709-5046 cellphone
eFax: 801-749-7142 - email: [email protected]
http://www.waltboyes.com
----------------------------------------------------------

> Here is a URL with a plethora of HMI's. Some large, some small.

> But, a better list than just the major players.

>

> --

> Manuel Martinez
> Technical Sales Engineer
> ONSPEC Automation Solutions
> 3320 Data Drive
> Suite 350
> Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
>
> (916) 853 - 2590 Phone
> (916) 853 - 2585 Fax
> http://www.ONSPEC.com

G

#### G Isom

> I know that this has probably been a topic in the past but I am currently considering Wonderware or RSView as MMI's in our robotic assembly operation. Can anyone briefly share their

Regarding WonderWare's tech support.. they have several different levels, both of which I have found to have a 24 hour response time in most cases and a distinct lack of effort to give real time respone.

Having had both a Development License and Runtime for 7.0 before a major plant upgrade that had us acquiring an addittional set of the same programs I expected some every 90 day upgrade CD based support with the new licenses. Not only was this not forthcoming, but they changed the price for this item from $1100. yearly on our two existing licenses to$2800 yearly since we now have four licenses.

Needless to say we only have the basic support that came with the new package now, and in the case of additional needs we go to the Sub Contractor that installed the second system, it is much cheaper and we get the newest updates also.

In other words, in my opinion Wonderware has the idea the product is so good they do not need to be responsive to the customers needs...

Of course opinions are like a certain body part everyone shares