Hello,yes i will be working as aAn I&C (Instrumentation Controls Technician) .I agree with you that the P & IDs are the most helpful document.I need to learn a lot of things for this occupation.I want to thank you for your detailed response and you seem to have a lot of knowledge.I am afraid I cannot disclose my occupation in public, can I message you privately?nikidi.control,
a) What is your experience with control systems?
b) What is your interest in the Mark VIe? As an operator of the turbine and driven device? An I&C (Instrumentation Controls Technician)? A field service person working on turbine control systems? A plant engineer with responsibility for automation?
c) What kind(s) of turbine(s) and driven devices (generators; centrifugal compressors; etc.) are in use at your plant and controlled and protected by the Mark VIe?
The "Mark VIe" is a LOT of things to a lot of different people. Some people (NOT ME!) consider the HMI to be the Mark VIe. The HMI is just a way of monitoring operation, managing alarms (VERY IMPORTANT--managing alarms!), and sending commands to the turbine control system (which controls and protects the turbine, auxiliaries and driven device (usually a generator)). The Mark VIe--in my opinion--is the panel which houses the control processors and I/O (Input/Output) cards and I/O packs which do the work of controlling and protecting the turbine. The HMI doesn't do ANY control or protection--the Mark VIe can (and does!) run just fine without the HMI (the operators can't see what's happening, or manage alarms (there's that word again: managing alarms--very important, that: managing alarms), or send commands to the Mark VIe), but the HMI doesn't actually participate in the control and protection of the turbine, auxiliaries and driven device. It's just a "window" into what's happening in the Mark VIe. The HMI can be used with Mark VIe, Mark VI, Mark V, and Mark IV. It is control system-independent. Yes, it has software on it that allows for programming and configuration and troubleshooting of the Mark VIe--but, still: The HMI doesn't do any controlling or protecting. (In fact, there are other HMI systems under development for the Mark VIe which can entirely replace the GE HMI and are simpler and easier and less expensive, and less complex, than the GE HMI. But, I digress.)
Without understanding what your immediate need is to learn "how to use" the Mark VIe (as an operator; as an I&C technician; etc.), it's difficult to tell you where to start. Also, just reading the manuals isn't really going to help you a lot--unless you have a specific hardware issue. The Mark VIe manuals are about the Mark VIe--and it can be used (programmed and configured) to control a wide variety of turbines, from combustion (gas) turbines (heavy duty and aero-derivative units), to steam turbines, to boiler feed-pump turbines, to hydro turbines, to wind turbines. And, while there aren't that many differences between Mark VIe's used for gas- or steam turbines or hydro turbine, there are VERY large differences between those Mark VIe units and the ones used for wind turbines. So, understanding what kind of turbine(s) and driven device(s) you are working with and have this need to learn "how to use" the Mark VIe is important to be able to answer your question concisely..
Getting back to the manuals for the Mark VIe, they are very good at the hardware aspects of the Mark VIe--but they are LOUSY at explaining how the Mark VIe controls and protects a particular turbine, its auxiliaries and driven device. That's because it's a PAC (Programmable Action Controller)--meaning it can perform a LOT of different actions using a variety of different input- and output devices to control and protect a unit (turbine, auxiliaries and driven device). There are a LOT of different types of turbines, and auxiliaries (fuel systems; L.O. systems; Hydraulic systems; Cooling Water systems; Cooling & Sealing Air systems; Water Wash systems; and so on). There are many different types of generator excitation systems (sometimes called AVRs (Automatic Voltage Regulators). If the driven device is a centrifugal compressor, there may be a compressor surge control system, a compressor seal oil system; etc.). The Mark VIe is capable of controlling LOTS of different types of systems--and the manuals can describe a lot of the I/O necessary to do that--but the manuals DON'T explain how it is done for a particular turbine at a particular site. Which is really the very most important thing a fresher needs to know: What's supposed to happen when?!?!???!!
The unit Operation & Maintenance Manuals (which often include the Mark VIe manuals) should have sections for each of the systems of the unit--called System Descriptions. In each System Description you should get a written description of the most basic functions of the system, and with newer Operations & Maintenance Manuals there is usually a P&ID (Process & Instrumentation Diagram) for the system. This is THE MOST IMPORTANT DOCUMENT ANYONE wishing to learn about a GE-design heavy duty gas turbine needs to learn to read and understand: the P&IDs. Period. Full Stop. EVERYONE operating and working on the turbine should have their own copies of all of the P&IDs for the unit--and they should be covered with notes and flags and highlighter marks--which the owner has put on the drawings as they learn the names and functions of each device, and the calibration setpoints of many of the devices (like temperature switches, pressure switches, pressure transmitters, level switches, etc.).
There is, or should be, another very important document which is very helpful (and, really, required) for learning about the unit (including the control system) and that is called the 'Device Summary' drawing; it is kind of the "decoder ring" for the nomenclature used for temperature switches, and limit switches, and T/Cs (thermocouples), and pressure transmitters, etc. It also includes the calibration setpoints for most of the devices (when the contacts open or close (change state), such as when the temperature increases above 165 deg F, or below 9 psig, etc.). An astute and motivated individual will copy all of the calibration setpoint information to their copy of the P&IDs--so they have all the information in one single place, readily available. And, because they had to read the information in order to copy it to the P&ID, they will also become familiar with some of the operating parameters of the unit and its devices (I/O).
Finally, there is another document/drawing supplied with every Mark VIe and usually found in the Operations & Maintenance Manuals, called the 'CONTROL SPECIFICATION.' This is a cryptic set of parameters and device and system operation descriptions, as well as some (very poor) instructions for things like calibrating LVDTs (Linear Variable Differential Transducers)--which EVERYONE (except me!) thinks need re-calibrating whenever ANYTHING unusual happens (which IS NOT true!!!). But, making your own copy of the CONTROL SPEC, as it's called, is also very helpful, and as you read it you should be making notes and highlighting passages, and asking questions (you can ask them here on Control.com).
This information will get you started--IF you find yourself working on a GE-design heavy duty gas turbine. If not, well, you'll need to let us know and there might be someone else in the forum who can help with your journey.
The "slides" from GE are, again--in my personal opinion--pretty damn useless. They purport to be site-specific, but they rarely are. They are filled with old information, and with a lot of useless information--if one is trying to understand how their unit operates and how the Mark VIe does what it's supposed to do. And, they RARELY, IF EVER, have specific operating instructions and sequences for operators.
And that's where I'm going to leave this discussion for today. You want more information--you're going to have to tell us about your job and responsibilities (don't be afraid to say, "GE hired me and gave me some training--but I still don't really understand what it is I'm to be working on or how turbines work or how the Mark VIe works!" Because, the training they give their field service personnel isn't that much better than the training they give their Customers (in many respects, it's pretty much the same... sad, but true).
Tell us about yourself, your past experience, the equipment you find yourself working on now--and we can try to help. But, mostly we are here to help you find the information you need to know about the unit(s) at your site--and that's found in the configuration and programming of the Mark VIe, using a program called ToolboxST on the GE HMI. And, that's all for today, folks!
Welcome to the forum! There's almost 20 years of GE-related turbine control information on this forum--all accessible buy using the 'Search' feature (the little magnifying glass icon) at the top of every Control.com webpage. It's fast, and it usually returns a lot of relevant search results. ALSO, at the bottom of every thread page is a list of 'Similar Threads' which can also be very useful (and which get overlooked A LOT!).
Be safe--and stay healthy!
Yep,very helpful,now,i want to learn Mark VIe for frame 5 machines.I think I will have to read the P & Id-s and see the Toolbox and the Cimplicitynikid.control,
Sorry; I don't do off-line or PM/DM (Personal Messages/Direct Messages). The really great thing about forums like this is that MANY people can read the exchanges and benefit from them. Taking discussions off-line benefits one person.
Again, there are LOTS (thousands) of previous threads related to GE-design heavy duty gas turbines and control philosophies in the "archives" of Control.com and are accessible using the 'Search' feature of Control.com (the magnifying glass icon at the top of every Control.com webpage). And, don't forget when you look at previous threads, there is the 'Similar threads' section at the bottom of every thread which can be very helpful, too.
Using ToolboxST can be a bit daunting at first--just remember this: If you open ToolboxST and are looking around various places and locations, DON'T SAVE any changes (if you're just looking around to familiarize yourself). Especially when you close ToolboxST if it asks if you want to save any changes--JUST DON'T DO IT!!! That's the best way to avoid unintended problems--don't save anything while in ToolboxST or when exiting ToolboxST.
And, as long as you don't use any passwords when looking around and familiarizing yourself while in ToolboxST, you are pretty safe, also.
You don't have to tell us where you work (location; company name), but it would be most helpful if you could tell us about the equipment the Mark VIe is controlling (turbine(s); BOP (Balance of Plant); DCS (Distributed Control System); generators; centrifugal compressors; etc.). Control.com doesn't have avatars which we could easily refer to when trying to understand what equipment someone is working on when trying to respond to questions. Unfortunately, as with most things in GE, the standard in Mark VIe is: There is no standard. The gas turbine people do things differently than the steam turbine people, and the BOP/DCS people are even MORE disconnected from the gas- and steam controls practices. It can be QUITE maddening--to say the least. Sure; it's all Mark VIe--but sometimes it isn't.
Finally, if the site is older and the Mark VIe turbine control systems were upgrades from older control systems--that information is VERY helpful, too--because there are important differences between upgrade turbine controls and those supplied as new with new turbines and auxiliaries.
While it might seem like it sometimes--the Mark VIe isn't rocket science. (Far from it, actually.) It's complicated, poorly documented (the turbine control concepts and philosophies and practices), and cryptic--but it's not rocket science. It just seems that way at first.
Hope this helps!
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