Real Cooker ! Will this be heaven or hell?

> As health care and farming methodes continue to swell the world
> population, the system starts to become unstable.

The solution to that seems to be a liberal education for girls and access
to effective contraception... or at least at first sight that would seem to
be the trick in the few countries that have zero population growth today. I
haven't studied it.

> While I don't predict the end of the world, I can see the potential for a
> lot of misery and death.

That there is, always. But at this stage it's unlikely to be particularly
related to industrial automation.

Jiri Baum <[email protected]> the MAT LinuxPLC project at

Ralph Mackiewicz

What an interesting and provocative question! My opinion, based in
large part on a cursory examination of history, is that increasing
productivity can only increase the prosperity of humans which I think
is good. Consumption/production, like wealth, is not static. It is
increased through human activity. As to whether or not this results
in heaven or hell: I think that this is not the choice that humans
make consciously. Heaven or hell results from our choices. The
tragedy of human existence is we always choose heaven but the results
are often hellish until we wise up. The only certain hell is zero
productivity where we all starve to death.


Ralph Mackiewicz

Rick Jafrate

> Anand:
> I believe that at this time in human history, there couldn't be a more
> important subject.

As far back as I can remember (about 40 yr.) people have been winning about
automation and making dire predictions. None of these predications have ever
come close to being true.

> People feel threatened by their luxury. They are skeptic about their
> future.

The people to whom you refer are those who feel guilty for having done little or nothing to earn the rewards of life (fame, fortune, etc.), they are currently
enjoying. Hard work is such a foreign concept they have difficulty imagining
how anything is accomplished so naturally, they are insecure.

> They believe automation would be the "bane" for humankind.

That's because they don't understand anything about it and we humans always fear what we don't understand.

> Imagine a world full of "holly's" (human dolly's, dolly the sheep who was
> artificially made by DNA etc. in a lab). See Armageddon approaching and
> rapidly.

We already have that now and DNA technology wasn't required to achieve it. They are not called "hollys"; they are called "chinese", the Chinese people who are being enslaved by a repressive communist government, the People's Republic of China.

> But they also want and live by the same automated products and
> procedures of the day. Drive cars above the 140 Kmph limit
> (120Kmph+20kmph overlooked by many enforcers+a little bit extra for your
> ego). They cant believe that water coming from your municipal taps to be
> healthy and buy mineral watr from the latest plant with fully automated
> procedures. And so on on the other side.

That's because the people to whom you refer to earlier are not threatened enough, are not skeptical enough, and do not feel guilty enough to give up any of their luxuries.

Conclusion: There are people who enjoy a high standard of living and who have done little if anything to earn it. They are worried that they might loose something because of ______________ (automation, the internet, comic books, cloning, etc... fill in the blank with whatever you want). They would prefer to keep everything the same even if that meant that everybody else would have to make sacrifices.

Rick Jafrate
firstly, it will make no difference because we adapt, and then find other things to complain about. secondly, you are not looking ahead far enough! when we are able to reproduce products on a molecular level with the push of a button, we wont have factories anymore. dont worry though, we will find something else to bitch about!