We are working on a relocation project of Frame 6B dual fuel gas turbine generator unit taken out of service few years ago. The control system is TMR Speedtronic Mark V. There is a Primary Operator Interface <I> from GE Drive Systems. It is needed to power up <I> to collect to connect to the panel to verify healthiness of the panel as well as to collect backup.

There is a processing board marked with 486DX/33 on backplane. It was noticed that some components are missing from the <I> CPU. There are two openings in backplane: one is for Arcnet card and the other one is not known. Cooling fan is missing too.

I've checked in GE Mark V manuals, but I couldn't find any information about internal components of <I>. I would like to request all members for helping me to get list of missing components with part numbers.

Is it possible to power up and establish communication If missing components are installed?

Attached are photographs of <I> for reference.

 

@smpalasara,

That <I> has been cannibalized. And judging by the rust and dust it needs a good cleaning before being powered-up.

The missing cooling fan is a regular computer "muffin fan"--any similar computer cooling fan will work fine. I don't recall if the cooling fan was AC mains-powered or was connected the internal power supply of the CPU case.

The ARCnet card is going to be the biggest problem, because the legacy ISA-bus ARCnet cards are no longer manufactured and have not been for years. There was a rumor going around a few years back that someone/company had cobbled together a workaround card, but I haven't heard that anyone used them or what their experience was. You can try places that buy used Mark* turbine control panels and auxiliaries and HMIs (and <I>s) and ask if they have any ISA-bus ARCnet cards for sale. If they do, it's pretty likely they are expensive because there are actually still a relatively large number of <I>s still in service around the world and when they fail (and the do fail--usually because of poor housekeeping and maintenance (think dust and humidity)--most sites are willing to pay just about anything to get a working ARCnet card for their operator interface.

I don't know what that port near the AC mains connection is for or why it's labeled REMOTE.

It appears the video card is missing, and finding an old legacy ISA-bus video driver card is going to be challenging. It's basically a "plain" VGA video card--nothing special (low resolution).

GE bought CPUs from several vendors over the early years of Mark* V production and to my knowledge there was never a published list of parts for any of them.

You've got a challenge there!

Is the <I> eventually going to be replaced with a modern HMI operator interface? An OEM HMI will cost tens of thousands of dollars and comes with its own set of challenges (that I wouldn't want to have to work through...).

The hard drive could be connected to just about any modern computer (with a proper interface/power supply "adapter" which are inexpensive and readily available) and the contents of it can then be backed-up. BUT, ANY CPU CANNOT BE USED FOR A MARK* V OPERATOR INTERFACE <I>. The BIOS chip has to be of a particular variety and IDOS won't work with any typical PC BIOS, especially proprietary BIOS chips used by some large personal computer manufacturers.

So, again--you've got a challenge. The industrial rack-mount PC is just another (earlier) type of IBM-compatible personal computer. It uses ISA bus cards for many functions (like serial ports and parallel ports and video cards and sound cards and USB ports (if the BIOS accepts them), etc.

I wonder what would be required to attempt to create a virtual machine (using VM software--there are several versions now) or even try to run DOS/IDOS in a "DOS box" window on a MS-Windows machine.?.?.? I think it's been done, but I doubt it's simple or even straightforward.

There are some companies that produce Mark* V HMIs using a mix of proprietary and off-the-shelf hardware and software--including older <I> operator interfaces, possibly even with ARCnet cards and modern CPUs. I just can't recall the name of any of them at the moment. BUT, if you opt to go this direction PLEASE do your homework and check with other users who have had this system, and ask them about the commissioning experience AND after-installation service and support. You will be sorry if you don't get references from the potential suppliers and then don't contact them for their experience(s).

One of the ones I have encountered the most has been TMOS SCADA systems TMOS HMI for Mark* V operator interfaces. (www.tmosscada.com I think). I think these systems are also sold and supported by several other gas turbine parts and service providers.

Please let us know how you proceed and what the results were. A LOT of people follow GE turbine control system-related threads here on Control.com and some could benefit from you experience and successes (and even failures). Others might have some experience they could offer also. It's been a LONG time since I've worked on an <I>, but they're really NOT all that difficult--as the hardware goes.

Best of luck!

 

@smpalasara,

That <I> has been cannibalized. And judging by the rust and dust it needs a good cleaning before being powered-up.

The missing cooling fan is a regular computer "muffin fan"--any similar computer cooling fan will work fine. I don't recall if the cooling fan was AC mains-powered or was connected the internal power supply of the CPU case.

The ARCnet card is going to be the biggest problem, because the legacy ISA-bus ARCnet cards are no longer manufactured and have not been for years. There was a rumor going around a few years back that someone/company had cobbled together a workaround card, but I haven't heard that anyone used them or what their experience was. You can try places that buy used Mark* turbine control panels and auxiliaries and HMIs (and <I>s) and ask if they have any ISA-bus ARCnet cards for sale. If they do, it's pretty likely they are expensive because there are actually still a relatively large number of <I>s still in service around the world and when they fail (and the do fail--usually because of poor housekeeping and maintenance (think dust and humidity)--most sites are willing to pay just about anything to get a working ARCnet card for their operator interface.

I don't know what that port near the AC mains connection is for or why it's labeled REMOTE.

It appears the video card is missing, and finding an old legacy ISA-bus video driver card is going to be challenging. It's basically a "plain" VGA video card--nothing special (low resolution).

GE bought CPUs from several vendors over the early years of Mark* V production and to my knowledge there was never a published list of parts for any of them.

You've got a challenge there!

Is the <I> eventually going to be replaced with a modern HMI operator interface? An OEM HMI will cost tens of thousands of dollars and comes with its own set of challenges (that I wouldn't want to have to work through...).

The hard drive could be connected to just about any modern computer (with a proper interface/power supply "adapter" which are inexpensive and readily available) and the contents of it can then be backed-up. BUT, ANY CPU CANNOT BE USED FOR A MARK* V OPERATOR INTERFACE <I>. The BIOS chip has to be of a particular variety and IDOS won't work with any typical PC BIOS, especially proprietary BIOS chips used by some large personal computer manufacturers.

So, again--you've got a challenge. The industrial rack-mount PC is just another (earlier) type of IBM-compatible personal computer. It uses ISA bus cards for many functions (like serial ports and parallel ports and video cards and sound cards and USB ports (if the BIOS accepts them), etc.

I wonder what would be required to attempt to create a virtual machine (using VM software--there are several versions now) or even try to run DOS/IDOS in a "DOS box" window on a MS-Windows machine.?.?.? I think it's been done, but I doubt it's simple or even straightforward.

There are some companies that produce Mark* V HMIs using a mix of proprietary and off-the-shelf hardware and software--including older <I> operator interfaces, possibly even with ARCnet cards and modern CPUs. I just can't recall the name of any of them at the moment. BUT, if you opt to go this direction PLEASE do your homework and check with other users who have had this system, and ask them about the commissioning experience AND after-installation service and support. You will be sorry if you don't get references from the potential suppliers and then don't contact them for their experience(s).

One of the ones I have encountered the most has been TMOS SCADA systems TMOS HMI for Mark* V operator interfaces. (www.tmosscada.com I think). I think these systems are also sold and supported by several other gas turbine parts and service providers.

Please let us know how you proceed and what the results were. A LOT of people follow GE turbine control system-related threads here on Control.com and some could benefit from you experience and successes (and even failures). Others might have some experience they could offer also. It's been a LONG time since I've worked on an <I>, but they're really NOT all that difficult--as the hardware goes.

Best of luck!

Dear WTF?

Thank you very much for your detailed and insightful response.

You’ve provided excellent clarity regarding the missing components and challenges associated with restoring the <I> HMI, especially the availability of legacy ISA-bus ARCnet and VGA cards. Your inputs on potential alternatives and the caution regarding BIOS compatibility are very valuable to us.

We will discuss the available options internally with our team—including whether to attempt a restoration or to go for a modern HMI retrofit. Based on that, we will plan our next steps accordingly.

I will update this thread with our progress and decisions as we move forward. Once again, thank you for your support and guidance—it’s much appreciated.

Best regards,
smpalasara

 

Have spare parts if your iterested?

 

@smpalasara,

Please be aware that purchasing a GE Mark* HMI is going to be expensive, AND, there aren't many experienced GE field service or factory personnel with Mark* V turbine controls. The installation and commissioning of the new HMI would most likely be problematic and you would be left with unresolved issues. It might also require some PROM chip changes as well and maybe even some Mark* V turbine control panel printed circuit card changes, also. They will push very hard to upgrade the system to some perversion of Mark* VIe which--truth be told--would be the best option in the long run, but also very expensive, and again, would likely result in unresolved issues after the commissioning process. Converting an existing Mark* V to a Mark* VIe-compatible system is not a difficult process, it's just that experience has shown over many years that some nagging and nuisance issues never get resolved if not resolved before the commissioning personnel leave the site after the commissioning.

The Mark* V is a fairly robust turbine control system, and lots of spare printed circuit cards are available. Troubleshooting a Mark* V with an <I> operator interface can be difficult as most of the troubleshooting and data-gathering software tools on the <I> are command-line executables with several command-line switches--not at all user-friendly or intuitive without someone to teach and assist in using and configuring.

In my opinion a third-party HMI, such as the TMOS systems, is a very good and reasonably priced alternative that has modern CPUs and microprocessors and auxiliaries (printers (laser and color)), modern monitors, USB ports, etc. (A dot matrix printer, while often considered to be "old technology" is exactly suitable for an alarm printer. EPSON still makes them I believe.)

 

Just to let you know I have a GE Speedtronic Mk V parts lot available, if someone needs it.
All cards were checked by our technicians before been stored.
If interested write to [email protected]