hi all
i have problem in mark v that the flow chart seq for gas turbine MS5001 are difficult to compare with the studio starts seq rungs between 37 to 48 to understand which point that the seq pass. If there is anyone can explain how to compare them and what is the meaning for trb1 ,trb2 .load and gen in the studio seq

best regards

 

Hello,

Most every CSP (Control Sequence Program), which is what you're looking at when you're using Mark V Studio, is composed of segments (because the Master Sequence Editor can't open a single file with all of the rungs and blocks needed to control and protect a turbine and its auxiliaries and driven device). Each segment is given a unique name, and SEQ_TRB1, SEQ_TRB2, SEQ_LOAD, etc., are just names given to segments. They could be called anything, as long as valid MS-DOS-compatible characters were used for the filename, limited to eight characters. The filename extensions all had to be .SRC.

When using Mark V Studio to look at a CSP, you are actually looking at the CSP Printout file, which is created using the CSP Documentor, which uses the information from the various CSP segment files and the information about the rungs and BBLs stored in the PROM subdirectory to create CSP.PRN and CSP_XREF.PRN (the CSP Printout file, and the CSP Cross-Reference file).

The CSP created for every turbine is unique, even though many of the same rungs were used in just about every turbine. And the order of the rungs is also unique, even though the order of many of the rungs was also the same for just about every turbine. But, because each CSP is unique we can't know what specific rungs you are having difficulty with just by knowing the rung numbers.

So, if you can tell us what rungs you're having trouble with, we can start trying to help with your understanding. (Rungs are typically identified by the signal name of the coil at the right side of the rung.) It would also help to know which segment the rungs you're listing are located in.

As for "flow chart sequence", well, you must be very lucky because most GE-design heavy duty gas turbines aren't supplied with flow-charts to describe the turbine operation. And, it they were, I would never trust that document because the only document that actually describes exactly how any turbine operates is the drawing of the sequencing or application code that is actually running in the Speedtronic turbine control panel. Any other document is most likely generic, and while portions of it may be exactly like what's running in the Speedtronic, the entire document is likely not exactly representative of what's running in the Speedtronic and is only to be used as a guideline or indication of the intent of what's actually running in the panel.

I know you didn't want to hear that, and while the flowchart you have may be exactly like what's running in the Speedtronic for your turbine, its auxiliaries and driven device, if so yours would be <b>the</b> exception to the rule.

So, provide us with some more information and we can try to be more help.

 

CSA,
Thank you for your inf. If you have time, can you explain the starting seq between 37 to 48 rungs and what is the best way for troubleshooting when you have the alarm signal is not including at the alarm list?

 

That would be possible <b>if, and only if</b> you provide the coil names of the rungs from 37 to 48 and the CSP segment file they come from, just as was asked in the original reply.

OR, since the CSP is an ASCII text file, you can copy and paste them into your response. Open the CSP.PRN file with any editor capable of reading ASCII text (you can use MS-Notepad, MS-Wordpad, even MS-Word, but you will likely have to change fonts to make it readable/sharable), copy the rungs from 37 to 48 to the Clipboard, and then paste them into your response in the 'Text' field of control.com. (When you close the text editor you used to open CSP.PRN, be sure to **NOT** save any changes or save to any format; just click 'No' to any prompts to save when exiting the editor and you should be okay.) You can even past the Clipboard contents to a new blank text file, put it on a floppy or CD or removable media, and then copy from that media to control.com. Or, you can compress the CSP.PRN file to removable media, then open it on the computer you are using to write to control.com and open the file and copy-and-paste that way.

Then insert a line at the top of the pasted section with the following characters:

<pre>

and immediately after the pasted section insert the following characters:

</pre>

[MODERATOR: Is there any way you can ensure the HTML tag examples will appear in the body of the posting? THANKS!!!!!!]

(That will format the pasted section into proportional-spaced font, which should make it easier for us to read and interpret.)

There are any number of ways to do this. If you're not comfortable with copying-and-pasting, then get someone to help. Or, write down the coil names of the rungs and the segment name, and then list the segment name and the coil names, in order, in your response.

As has been said: Every CSP is unique. They may all contain some of the same rungs and sequencing and BBLs (algorithms), but, they are not always in the same order and they are not always identical. So, without being able to see the CSP for your site we can't know which rungs are 37 to 48, and how they're programmed. You have to help us help you, that's all there is to it.

Just like was said in the original response.

I don't understand the last question. Are you referring to ALARM.LST for Process Alarms? Or Diagnostic Alarms?

Please provide examples of your issues/problems. This is a technical forum, and we can be most helpful when you include as much information as possible.

 

To change to fixed-spaced font for pasting the CSP section into your post, put the following command immediately before the posting (<b>without the space before and without the space after </b> pre):

< pre >

And then put the following command immediately after the CSP section to return to proportionally-spaced font (<b>without the space before and without the space after </b> /pre):

< /pre >

 

Thank you for your help the rungs as following <pre>
<<< Rung Number 37 >>>
ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ»
º TMV - Time Delay º L1XY
L1X Input L0º ÚÄÄÄÄÄ¿ º
ÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ×ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ×ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )
º ³ TD ³ º
K1XY 0ºfinal ³ ³ currº1 T1XY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ×ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ×ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
º ³ ³ º
º dt ³ ³ º
º ÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ³ º
º ÀÄÄÄÄÄÙ º
ÈÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍͼ



K1XY -- Time Delay for L1SY ????? <1 sec>
SEQ_TRB1 37

L1X -- Master Control - Startup Permissive ?????
SEQ_TRB1 19 SEQ_TRB1 -36 SEQ_TRB1 37 SEQ_TRB1 42 SEQ_TRB1 43
SEQ_TRB1 46.2 SEQ_TRB1 63 SEQ_TRB1 115 SEQ_TRB1 154 SEQ_TRB1 239
SEQ_TRB1 265.26 SEQ_TRB2 28 SEQ_TRB2 84.3 SEQ_LOAD 35 SEQ_LOAD 39
SEQ_AUX 61 SEQ_AUX 63 SEQ_AUX 103 SEQ_AUX 105 SEQ_AUX 149.3

L1XY -- Auxiliary Signal to L1X (Time Delay Inverse) ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -37 SEQ_TRB1 46.2 SEQ_TRB1 239

T1XY -- L1SY Timer Current Value ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -37



<<< Rung Number 38 >>>


L4 L2F L28FDX L2FZ
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


L28FDX -- Flame Detection Control ?????
SEQ_TRB1 8 SEQ_TRB1 16 SEQ_TRB1 28.3 SEQ_TRB1 38 SEQ_TRB1 40
SEQ_TRB1 46.5 SEQ_TRB1 46.7 SEQ_TRB1 46.8 SEQ_TRB1 46.9 SEQ_TRB1 46.10
SEQ_TRB1 46.11 SEQ_TRB1 46.12 SEQ_TRB1 125 SEQ_TRB1 126 SEQ_TRB1 175
SEQ_TRB1 191 SEQ_TRB1 194 SEQ_TRB1 197 SEQ_TRB1 207 SEQ_TRB1 224
SEQ_TRB1 -231.6 SEQ_TRB1 231.7 SEQ_TRB1 231.8 SEQ_TRB1 231.11 SEQ_TRB1 231.12
SEQ_TRB1 231.13 SEQ_TRB2 39.5 SEQ_AUX 82 SEQ_AUX 122 SEQ_AUX 149.4
SEQ_GEN 213

L2F -- Firing Timer - Failure to Ignite ?????
SEQ_TRB1 38 SEQ_TRB1 46.5 SEQ_TRB1 193 SEQ_TRB1 194 SEQ_TRB1 -195
SEQ_TRB1 197

L2FZ -- Multiple Starts Permissive ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -38 SEQ_TRB1 39


Control Sequence Document for Segment F:\Unit1\SEQ_TRB1.SRC Sat Jul 16 08:58:21 2005 Page - 21



L4 -- Master protective signal ?????
SEQ_TRB1 8 SEQ_TRB1 19 SEQ_TRB1 36 SEQ_TRB1 38 SEQ_TRB1 42
SEQ_TRB1 46.2 SEQ_TRB1 46.3 SEQ_TRB1 46.6 SEQ_TRB1 47 SEQ_TRB1 50
SEQ_TRB1 54 SEQ_TRB1 70 SEQ_TRB1 76 SEQ_TRB1 80 SEQ_TRB1 86
SEQ_TRB1 105 SEQ_TRB1 117 SEQ_TRB1 126 SEQ_TRB1 137 SEQ_TRB1 138
SEQ_TRB1 -141 SEQ_TRB1 142 SEQ_TRB1 143 SEQ_TRB1 172 SEQ_TRB1 176
SEQ_TRB1 180 SEQ_TRB1 189 SEQ_TRB1 191 SEQ_TRB1 196 SEQ_TRB1 197
SEQ_TRB1 205 SEQ_TRB1 218 SEQ_TRB1 221 SEQ_TRB1 222 SEQ_TRB1 231.11
SEQ_TRB1 231.14 SEQ_TRB1 231.15 SEQ_TRB1 231.16 SEQ_TRB1 231.17 SEQ_TRB1 231.18
SEQ_TRB1 239 SEQ_TRB1 265.2 SEQ_TRB1 265.5 SEQ_TRB1 265.7 SEQ_TRB1 265.8
SEQ_TRB1 265.22 SEQ_TRB1 265.25 SEQ_TRB2 18 SEQ_TRB2 39.2 SEQ_TRB2 39.3
SEQ_TRB2 39.4 SEQ_TRB2 39.5 SEQ_TRB2 39.9 SEQ_TRB2 39.11 SEQ_TRB2 39.12
SEQ_TRB2 39.13 SEQ_TRB2 39.17 SEQ_TRB2 40 SEQ_TRB2 68 SEQ_TRB2 72
SEQ_TRB2 74 SEQ_TRB2 80.3 SEQ_TRB2 84.3 SEQ_TRB2 84.5 SEQ_LOAD 18
SEQ_LOAD 23 SEQ_LOAD 37 SEQ_LOAD 57.5 SEQ_AUX 56.4 SEQ_AUX 56.7
SEQ_AUX 61 SEQ_AUX 63 SEQ_AUX 76 SEQ_AUX 76 SEQ_AUX 78
SEQ_AUX 78 SEQ_AUX 79 SEQ_AUX 103 SEQ_AUX 105 SEQ_AUX 125.2
SEQ_AUX 149.4 SEQ_AUX 169 SEQ_GEN 35 SEQ_GEN 45 SEQ_GEN 50
SEQ_GEN 213 SEQ_GEN 238 SEQ_GEN 322



<<< Rung Number 39 >>>


L2FZ L62TT
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


L2FZ -- Multiple Starts Permissive ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -38 SEQ_TRB1 39

L62TT -- Turbine Multiple Start and Auto Re-Fire ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -39 SEQ_TRB1 40 SEQ_TRB1 190



<<< Rung Number 40 >>>
ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ»
º CTV - Event Counter º
L28FDX Reset L0º º
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ×ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ º
³ º ù º
³ K62TT2 1ºfinal ÚÄÄÄÄ¿ ù º L62TT2
L14HR ³ ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ×ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´B ³ ù º
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÙ º ³ AòBÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ×ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )
º ÚÄ´A ³ ù ù º
º ³ ÀÄÄÄÄÙ ù ÚÄÄÄ¿ ù º
º ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÂÄ´ -1ÃÄÄÄÄ¿ º
E62TT2 0ºprev_valÚÄÄÄ¿ ù ³ ³Z ³ ù ³ º
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ×ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄo´ ³ ù ³ ÀÄÄÄÙ ù ³ º
º ³ANDÃÄÄÄÄ¿ ù +³ ³countº2 C62TT2
L62TT Signal L1º ³ ³ ù ù OÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÅÄÄÄÄÄ×ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ×ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ³0 Ä´/ÿ ù +³ ù ³ º
º ÀÄÄÄÙ ù ³ ù ³ 0 Ä´ ÃÄÙ º
º 1 Ä´ ÃÁ´/ÃÄÄÙ º
º º
ÈÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍͼ



C62TT2 -- Multiple Start counter ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -40

E62TT2 -- Enable for L62TT2 ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -40

K62TT2 -- Multiple Start Count ????? <2 CNT15>
SEQ_TRB1 40

L14HR -- HP Speed - Zero Speed ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -6 SEQ_TRB1 19 SEQ_TRB1 40 SEQ_TRB1 63 SEQ_TRB1 65
SEQ_TRB1 67 SEQ_TRB1 70 SEQ_TRB1 76 SEQ_TRB1 83 SEQ_TRB1 109
SEQ_TRB1 139 SEQ_TRB1 151 SEQ_TRB1 159 SEQ_TRB1 170 SEQ_TRB1 172
SEQ_TRB1 265.28 SEQ_TRB2 84.3 SEQ_AUX 56.8 SEQ_AUX 56.16 SEQ_AUX 56.19
SEQ_AUX 56.23 SEQ_AUX 69 SEQ_AUX 69 SEQ_AUX 71 SEQ_AUX 71
SEQ_AUX 125.5 SEQ_GEN 299 SEQ_GEN 300 SEQ_GEN 301 SEQ_GEN 322
SEQ_GEN 322 SEQ_GEN 323

L28FDX -- Flame Detection Control ?????
SEQ_TRB1 8 SEQ_TRB1 16 SEQ_TRB1 28.3 SEQ_TRB1 38 SEQ_TRB1 40
SEQ_TRB1 46.5 SEQ_TRB1 46.7 SEQ_TRB1 46.8 SEQ_TRB1 46.9 SEQ_TRB1 46.10
SEQ_TRB1 46.11 SEQ_TRB1 46.12 SEQ_TRB1 125 SEQ_TRB1 126 SEQ_TRB1 175
SEQ_TRB1 191 SEQ_TRB1 194 SEQ_TRB1 197 SEQ_TRB1 207 SEQ_TRB1 224
SEQ_TRB1 -231.6 SEQ_TRB1 231.7 SEQ_TRB1 231.8 SEQ_TRB1 231.11 SEQ_TRB1 231.12
SEQ_TRB1 231.13 SEQ_TRB2 39.5 SEQ_AUX 82 SEQ_AUX 122 SEQ_AUX 149.4
SEQ_GEN 213

L62TT -- Turbine Multiple Start and Auto Re-Fire ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -39 SEQ_TRB1 40 SEQ_TRB1 190

L62TT2 -- Multiple Starts Counter ?????
SEQ_TRB1 35 SEQ_TRB1 -40 SEQ_TRB1 41 SEQ_TRB1 119



Control Sequence Document for Segment F:\Unit1\SEQ_TRB1.SRC Sat Jul 16 08:58:21 2005 Page - 22



<<< Rung Number 41 >>>

L62TT
L62TT2 L14HS 2_ALM
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


L14HS -- HP Speed - Min operating speed ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -6 SEQ_TRB1 41 SEQ_TRB1 47 SEQ_TRB1 93 SEQ_TRB1 167
SEQ_TRB1 173 SEQ_TRB1 177 SEQ_TRB1 180 SEQ_TRB1 183 SEQ_TRB1 184
SEQ_TRB1 231.6 SEQ_TRB1 236 SEQ_TRB1 237 SEQ_TRB1 264 SEQ_TRB2 67.9
SEQ_TRB2 80.3 SEQ_TRB2 84.2 SEQ_LOAD 10 SEQ_AUX 11 SEQ_AUX 16
SEQ_AUX 125.2 SEQ_AUX 125.3 SEQ_GEN 235

L62TT2 -- Multiple Starts Counter ?????
SEQ_TRB1 35 SEQ_TRB1 -40 SEQ_TRB1 41 SEQ_TRB1 119

L62TT2_ALM -- ALMTXT:'FAILURE TO START' [AL 057] ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -41



<<< Rung Number 42 >>>

L1STA R1STA
L70R L1FX L4 RT_CPB RT_CPB L26TCX L83AM L1FX
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÂÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÂÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÂÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÂÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÂÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )
³ ³ ³ ³ ³
³ ³ ³ ³ ³
L52GZ ³ ³ L1X ³ ³ L43R ³
ÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÙ ÃÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÙ ÀÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÙ
³
L1FAS ³
T_CPB ³
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´
³
R1FAS ³
T_CPB L43R ³
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÙ


L1FAST_CPB -- Fast Turbine Start PUSHBUTTON ?????
SEQ_TRB1 34 SEQ_TRB1 42

L1FX -- Auxiliary to Fast Load Start Signal ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -42 SEQ_TRB1 43 SEQ_TRB1 46.4 SEQ_TRB1 261 SEQ_TRB1 265.13
SEQ_TRB1 265.15 SEQ_TRB2 22 SEQ_LOAD 4 SEQ_LOAD 43

L1START_CPB -- COMMAND PB - Start turbine ?????
SEQ_TRB1 34 SEQ_TRB1 42

L1X -- Master Control - Startup Permissive ?????
SEQ_TRB1 19 SEQ_TRB1 -36 SEQ_TRB1 37 SEQ_TRB1 42 SEQ_TRB1 43
SEQ_TRB1 46.2 SEQ_TRB1 63 SEQ_TRB1 115 SEQ_TRB1 154 SEQ_TRB1 239
SEQ_TRB1 265.26 SEQ_TRB2 28 SEQ_TRB2 84.3 SEQ_LOAD 35 SEQ_LOAD 39
SEQ_AUX 61 SEQ_AUX 63 SEQ_AUX 103 SEQ_AUX 105 SEQ_AUX 149.3

L26TCX -- On Normal Temperature Control ?????
SEQ_TRB1 42 SEQ_TRB2 -29

L4 -- Master protective signal ?????
SEQ_TRB1 8 SEQ_TRB1 19 SEQ_TRB1 36 SEQ_TRB1 38 SEQ_TRB1 42
SEQ_TRB1 46.2 SEQ_TRB1 46.3 SEQ_TRB1 46.6 SEQ_TRB1 47 SEQ_TRB1 50
SEQ_TRB1 54 SEQ_TRB1 70 SEQ_TRB1 76 SEQ_TRB1 80 SEQ_TRB1 86
SEQ_TRB1 105 SEQ_TRB1 117 SEQ_TRB1 126 SEQ_TRB1 137 SEQ_TRB1 138
SEQ_TRB1 -141 SEQ_TRB1 142 SEQ_TRB1 143 SEQ_TRB1 172 SEQ_TRB1 176
SEQ_TRB1 180 SEQ_TRB1 189 SEQ_TRB1 191 SEQ_TRB1 196 SEQ_TRB1 197
SEQ_TRB1 205 SEQ_TRB1 218 SEQ_TRB1 221 SEQ_TRB1 222 SEQ_TRB1 231.11
SEQ_TRB1 231.14 SEQ_TRB1 231.15 SEQ_TRB1 231.16 SEQ_TRB1 231.17 SEQ_TRB1 231.18
SEQ_TRB1 239 SEQ_TRB1 265.2 SEQ_TRB1 265.5 SEQ_TRB1 265.7 SEQ_TRB1 265.8
SEQ_TRB1 265.22 SEQ_TRB1 265.25 SEQ_TRB2 18 SEQ_TRB2 39.2 SEQ_TRB2 39.3
SEQ_TRB2 39.4 SEQ_TRB2 39.5 SEQ_TRB2 39.9 SEQ_TRB2 39.11 SEQ_TRB2 39.12
SEQ_TRB2 39.13 SEQ_TRB2 39.17 SEQ_TRB2 40 SEQ_TRB2 68 SEQ_TRB2 72
SEQ_TRB2 74 SEQ_TRB2 80.3 SEQ_TRB2 84.3 SEQ_TRB2 84.5 SEQ_LOAD 18
SEQ_LOAD 23 SEQ_LOAD 37 SEQ_LOAD 57.5 SEQ_AUX 56.4 SEQ_AUX 56.7
SEQ_AUX 61 SEQ_AUX 63 SEQ_AUX 76 SEQ_AUX 76 SEQ_AUX 78
SEQ_AUX 78 SEQ_AUX 79 SEQ_AUX 103 SEQ_AUX 105 SEQ_AUX 125.2
SEQ_AUX 149.4 SEQ_AUX 169 SEQ_GEN 35 SEQ_GEN 45 SEQ_GEN 50
SEQ_GEN 213 SEQ_GEN 238 SEQ_GEN 322

L43R -- Remote Mode Selected ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -28.5 SEQ_TRB1 30 SEQ_TRB1 34 SEQ_TRB1 42 SEQ_TRB1 52
SEQ_TRB1 198 SEQ_TRB1 239 SEQ_LOAD 48 SEQ_GEN 208

L52GZ -- Generator breaker closed time delayed ?????
SEQ_TRB1 42 SEQ_LOAD -20

L70R -- Raise Speed Setpoint ?????
SEQ_TRB1 42 SEQ_TRB1 265.12 SEQ_TRB1 265.13 SEQ_TRB1 265.15 SEQ_TRB1 265.16
SEQ_TRB1 265.19 SEQ_TRB2 -15 SEQ_TRB2 31 SEQ_TRB2 81

L83AM -- Auto to Manual Load Transfer ?????
SEQ_TRB1 42 SEQ_TRB1 265.16 SEQ_TRB2 13 SEQ_LOAD 3 SEQ_LOAD -10
SEQ_LOAD 11 SEQ_LOAD 14


Control Sequence Document for Segment F:\Unit1\SEQ_TRB1.SRC Sat Jul 16 08:58:21 2005 Page - 23



R1FAST_CPB -- Remote start (from DCS) ?????
SEQ_TRB1 42

R1START_CPB -- Remote start (from DCS) ?????
SEQ_TRB1 34 SEQ_TRB1 42



<<< Rung Number 43 >>>

L3M
L1X L1FX CSTR
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


L1FX -- Auxiliary to Fast Load Start Signal ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -42 SEQ_TRB1 43 SEQ_TRB1 46.4 SEQ_TRB1 261 SEQ_TRB1 265.13
SEQ_TRB1 265.15 SEQ_TRB2 22 SEQ_LOAD 4 SEQ_LOAD 43

L1X -- Master Control - Startup Permissive ?????
SEQ_TRB1 19 SEQ_TRB1 -36 SEQ_TRB1 37 SEQ_TRB1 42 SEQ_TRB1 43
SEQ_TRB1 46.2 SEQ_TRB1 63 SEQ_TRB1 115 SEQ_TRB1 154 SEQ_TRB1 239
SEQ_TRB1 265.26 SEQ_TRB2 28 SEQ_TRB2 84.3 SEQ_LOAD 35 SEQ_LOAD 39
SEQ_AUX 61 SEQ_AUX 63 SEQ_AUX 103 SEQ_AUX 105 SEQ_AUX 149.3

L3MCSTR -- Normal Start Indicator ?????
SEQ_TRB1 -43



<<< Rung Number 44 >>>
End Start Logic Sequencing




<<< Rung Number 45 >>>

Start Counter_Timers Sequencing for 5001




******************** Rung 46 is COUNTER_TIMERS_L2 ********************



<<< Sub Rung Number 46.1 >>>

#DEFINE MODULE CNTTMRL2

BLOCK COUNTER_TIMERS_L2 (
LFALSE LOG, ;L33TUC i/o assign
LTRUE LOG, ;L33TDD i/o assign
LFALSE LOG, ;Inhibit gas fired time
LTRUE LOG, ;Inhibit gas2 fired time
L1X LOG, ;Manually Initiated Start ENAble 1
L1XY LOG, ;Manually Initiated Start ENAble 2
L4 LOG) ;Manually Initiated Start INHibit 1


<<< Sub Rung Number 46.2 >>>

L30
L1X L1S L4 L43O_F CMIS
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÂÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )
³ ³
³ L30 ³
L1XY ³ CMIS ³
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÁÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ


<<< Sub Rung Number 46.3 >>>

L30
L43O_F CTSX L4 L30CTS
ÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


<<< Sub Rung Number 46.4 >>>

L30
L1FX CFLS
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


<<< Sub Rung Number 46.5 >>>


L28FDX L2F L30CFS
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )





Control Sequence Document for Segment F:\Unit1\SEQ_TRB1.SRC Sat Jul 16 08:58:21 2005 Page - 24



<<< Sub Rung Number 46.6 >>>


L4 L14HM L94X L28FDY L30CES
ÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


<<< Sub Rung Number 46.7 >>>

L30FT_
L28FDX T
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


<<< Sub Rung Number 46.8 >>>

L30FT_
L28FDX L83PK P
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


<<< Sub Rung Number 46.9 >>>

L30FT_
L28FDX L84TL LFALSE G
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


<<< Sub Rung Number 46.10 >>>

L30FT_
L28FDX L84TG LFALSE L
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )


<<< Sub Rung Number 46.11 >>>

L30FT_
L28FDX L84TG LTRUE L2
ÄÄÄ´ ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄ´/ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ( )
</pre>

 

missionman,

It would be really helpful if you could tell us the problems you are experiencing with the control system, or the problems you are having understanding this bit of code (sequencing).

To make matters worse, some of the Longnames (the descriptions of the signal names) are not very good, and are just plain wrong in some cases (this information comes from LONGNAME.DAT, which is just and ASCII text file and can be edited to correct errors).

I suspect you are the victim of some very poorly written sequencing.

In general, the rungs can be divided into the following groups:

A portion of the 'Start' logic (sequencing).

The "unmanned" site 'Start' logic (sequencing).

The 'Fast Start' logic (sequencing).

Some comment rungs.

The 'Timers & Counters' logic.

All of it basically needs signals from other logic and sequencing, and feeds other logic and sequencing. Without being able to see the other signals, where they come from, and where they're used, this is going to be somewhat difficult.

In this example, L1XY is only used in one rung, 46.2, L30CMIS, which is the Manually Initiated Starts Counter. Each time a START is manually initiated (by an operator is what manual means, as opposed to an "automatic" start from some external source), then L30CMIS toggles (goes from logic '0' to logic '1') and increments the number of Manually Initiated Starts on the Timers and Counters display.

The next four rungs are part of the "unmanned site" sequencing that has been incorrectly included in almost every Speedtronic panel ever built. It's left over from the days when a lot of GE-design heavy duty gas turbines were used for peaking applications, and the plants (sites) where the turbine-generators were located were usually remote and unmanned, meaning that there wasn't usually a human being there, except when there were alarms or trouble.

The suffix, TT2, stands for "turbine tried twice", and the whole purpose of the sequencing was, in the event of a failed Remote start of an unmanned site *that was not caused by a critical problem that* the Speedtronic would initiate another START without any "manual" (human) intervention.

So, let's say a unit was started remotely from a dispatch center, and during the start there was a problem with the cooling water pump discharge pressure (air in the line causing the pump discharge pressure switch to momentarily indicate loss of cooling water system pressure). On some early turbines this would abort the Start sequence and force a person to either have to go to site to initiate another START, or the remote dispatch center would have to initiate a second START.

But, with the addition of this sequencing, such a "minor" condition having resolved itself (the air bubble was pushed out by the pump and steady pressure was again detected by the pressure switch) the 62TT2 sequencing would automatically initiate (continue) with the START sequence. The first "failed" attempt would increment the counter L62TT2 to a count of '1', and if the unit failed *for any reason, the same or any other reason* then the alarm 'FAILURE TO START' would be annunciated, or something like that alarm text message would be annunciated. (Note that just because that alarm text was used in the Longname description for a signal name, that <b>DOES NOT</b> mean that it was also used in the actual alarm text for that alarm!)

You didn't give us the L2FZ rung for your machine, so we can't tell what the conditions are for the multiple starts sequencing, and I suspect that is part of your problem with understanding the sequencing. Again, it would appear there is some very poorly written sequencing running in your Mark V, but that's just a guess from looking at this snippet of code.

The next rung, L1FX, is the rung that will initiate the "Fast Start" sequencing. NOTE: Fast Start and Fast <b>Load</b> Start are not always the same thing, and because we can't see all of the sequencing for your turbine it's not possible to tell exactly what's going to happen when L1FX gets "set" (goes to a logic '1'). Sometimes, a Fast Start "button" on the Main Display just means that the unit will accelerate to FSNL (100% speed) faster than normal, and sometimes it means that the unit will accelerate to FSNL at the normal rate but that the generator will automatically be synchronized and then loaded *very quickly* to either Pre-Selected Load or Base Load or even Peak Load, and sometimes it means a faster-than-normal acceleration to FSNL AND a faster-than-normal loading. It just all depends on how the sequencing was written, and we can't see all of the sequencing at your site. L1FX also increments what's commonly referred to as the 'Fast Load Starts' counter on your Mark V. Which may or may not actually mean Fast <b>Load</b> Starts. (Ain't this fun?!?!?!!!)

The next couple of rungs are comments; that was easy enough!

The last "rung" is a sequencing BBL which includes sub-rungs, and it's all for keeping track of starts and emergency trips and fired hours, etc. Again, we can't see all of the sequencing so we don't know exactly how each timer and counter is being controlled.

That's about as much as I can say about the sequencing you have provided. Again, if you can tell us the exact problem you are having with this bit of sequencing, we can try to help, but other than some apparently poorly written sequencing ("code") it's not possible to say much more than that. Are you having problems with the number of Manually Initiated Starts? Do you think the number being reported is excessive or not actually reflective of the starts you believe have been manually initiated?

Are you having problems with the TT2 stuff? That little bit of sequencing has caused fisticuffs on a couple sites I have worked on. Nowadays, most turbine sites are manned 24 hours/day, 7 days/week, 365 days/year. So, that little bit of sequencing is unnecessary, but it's been left in for who knows what reason. I've seen a turbine going through start-up sequencing, purging and even get into firing, and then some minor problem (like momentary loss of liquid fuel supply pressure or momentary loss of cooling water pressure or a problem with a lube oil pressure switch) cause the start sequence to be aborted and while everyone is standing around trying to figure out what happened the unit "magically" has fired and is accelerating to FSNL! Some operations supervisors and plant managers have falsely accused operators of re-initiating a START without instructions and have been so angry and insistent that the operators, feeling threatened, have responded angrily, also, leading to pushing and shoving, and twice resulting in fistfights--and all the while the unit is still accelerating to FSNL!

I wonder if L2FZ is the proper signal to be incrementing L62TT2 logic, but then I can't see all of the sequencing for that machine. Your sequencing says that once flame is established (when L28FDX goes to a logic '1') that the counter for L62TT2 is supposed to be reset to 0 (zero) counts.

But without being able to know exactly what your issue(s) is(are) and without being able to see all of the CSP, it's very difficult to say more than what's been said.

Hope this helps!

 

I meant to say that L1XY is only used once in the bit of code that you sent; it's also used in the same CSP segment, SEQ_TRB1, in rung 239, but we don't know what that rung is/does.

It would be so much easier (at least it would seem to be so much easier) if we knew the issue(s) you are(were) having with this bit of sequencing. And, since we can't see all of the sequencing, it's very difficult to explain every bit of it, and it wouldn't seem that you're having problems with all the various related bits of sequencing, including the comment rungs (which don't do anything except provide a comment/statement that the author thought would be appropriate).

So, if we can understand what problem(s) you are facing and how this sequencing relates to those problems, then it would be most helpful.

A lot of people have used various free sites to post ASCII text files and .pdf files of sequencing or piping schematics (P&IDs), trends, etc. I think one is www.tinypic.com; another is www.keepandshare.com; there are many others. Many of them have free space, and if you will post the link to the file(s) we can have a look. (We can't files to control.com; so this is the next best thing.)

Perhaps you could post a .pdf of the flow chart you have and are trying to relate to this bit of sequencing and tell us what is causing your questions/concerns.

Help us help you.

 

hi

thank you for your help you just solve my problem i am looking to met you again