Hello Everybody,
I've just registered to this very interesting and highly informative "conrol.com"-Forum, because I have some questions to all you MARK-IV/V/VI-Professionals out there (for that I would call myself an absolute Beginner in the terms of MARK-V-Control-System).

As far as I know does the MARK-V (HMI)-Control-System (in this case for a LM2500+DLE-Engine) make use of an LBC586Plus-Board (which was declared obsolete last year) from Winsys as Central-Processing-Unit.

Now, can anybody tell me if there is a chance to set up a spare part of this board (we still have one in stock) as a stand alone test-/development-kit for the MARK-V System? What do I at least need to connect this single board to a separate HMI-Computer, compile and and load the Control-Sequence-Program and get it running? Would I be able to to make some changes to the program and watch the results? Would it be possible to examine the behavior of some of the so called "big blocks"?

The background for my request is not only to make myself familiar with the MARK-V-Control-System in a more safe and practical way, but to know for sure if our spare board would work properly if seriously needed (we have some doubts it would!).

I'm very looking forward to your reply...

Thanks and kind regards!

"Marc5o"

 

The Mark V LM panels are as similar to Mark V panels as Mercedes-Benz lorries are similar to Mercedes-Benz sedans. They can both transport people and goods using an internal combustion engine, a transmission, and a minimum of four wheels. The both have a steering wheel, and accelerator, and ignition switches. They both have headlights and brakes. And they both have the Mercedes-Benz badge, but the similarities just about end there. They're automobiles, made by the same manufacturer, but for very different purposes.

The Mark V LM panels share the name Mark V Speedtronic with their non-LM cousins. They share the same physical dimensions (as the TMR Mark V panels), the same internal sheet-metal and plastic, the same discrete I/O cores, the same power distribution core, and many of the same components in the protective core.

But their configuration and microprocessors and OS and just about everything else is pretty different.

I personally have very little experience with Mark V LM panels. But, I don't think you could accomplish what you're trying to do with a single-board set-up. I may be entirely wrong; I've never seen (or heard of) a Mark V LM "trainer" set-up, like the Mark V "suitcase trainer". The Mark V suitcase trainer had a <C> and and <R> core and the necessary components to allow them to communicate with an HMI and each other.

My presumption is that a single microprocessor could not be configured to work as a Mark V LM, but that's just a presumption--and really qualifies only as speculation. Since the OS used in the Mark V LM panel is QNIX, someone with a good knowledge and understanding of that RTOS might be able to do some amazing things. Perhaps, even GE did something, but, I'm not personally aware of any such product.

There is at least one (poor) soul who has Mark V LM panel(s) that contributes to this site; perhaps he or someone else has some information which is useful to you.

As for your questions about the "so-called" Big Blocks. That's not their "street name", that's what their called: Big Blocks. If you have some questions, we can try to help. But, in my experience with different PLC/DCS/turbine control system programming and diagramming applications, I find the graphical representations in the Big Blocks to be extremely user-friendly, and so do others when they just spend even a little bit of time trying to get familiar with them.

My experience with a lot of the programming applications in use for other control systems is that many of their Big Block-like functions are represented with empty rectangles, with some lines on the left or right or top or bottom connecting the empty rectangles to other programming elements, sometimes other empty rectangles. The only place to understand what these empty rectangles do is to read some manual or help file, and in the case of a couple of popular applications my experience has been that the functions of these empty rectangles change but the written descriptions of what they do doesn't.

In the case of Big Blocks, if changes were made to the functionality of the block, the graphical representation was changed.

All of this is described in the GE Mark V manuals, but here's a basic synopsis. Big Blocks fall into a couple of categories: Primitives and Big Blocks. (Remember, all of this was designed and programmed by engineers for whom terms and descriptions aren't really important. They know what these things do and if the names they give aren't exactly descriptive or logical, well, that's too bad for the rest of us.)

Primitives are functions like add, subtract, multiply, square root, compare, compare with hysterisis, greater than, etc. Big Blocks are made up of Primitives, and sometimes some relay-ladder diagram-type sequencing (permissives for enabling, disabling, preventing, allowing, etc.). If you can use your finger or pencil to "follow" a signal through the graphical representation from the left (the "input" side of blocks) to the right (the "output" side of blocks), then it should be fairly easy to understand what's happening.

Big Blocks are further divided into Generic and Application-specific categories. Generic Big Blocks are blocks that can be used for any type of application: steam turbine, gas turbine, boiler feed-pump turbine, etc. Things like steam flow calculations, etc. Application-specific Big Blocks are blocks that perform functions peculiar to specific types of applications, like combustion monitoring for heavy duty gas turbine applications, etc.

A lot of the Generic Big Blocks are described in the manuals; several of the Application-specific Big Blocks are also described in the the manuals as well. Studying these can be helpful in understanding Big Blocks that are not described in the manuals.

The really sad thing to note here is that new versions of applications being used to program and troubleshoot newer Speedtronic control systems are adopting the same "empty rectangle" approach. I guess "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!" applies even to GE. Leading by example hasn't seemed to provide a competitive edge that can be translated into sales or profits, so, they're going to fall in line with others. Which is a really sad event in my opinion.