Help gang!

I've been asked to scope a control system for general resale to chicken processing plants. Nothing terribly hard, a few PID loops and some discrete I/O. I'd like to know if anyone here has a good feel for the type of control system that would be appropriate for a plant to maintain themselves. I'm not particularly familiar with food processing, and I don't know the skill level of the average maintenance tech in a meat packing house.

Anyone out there with a back ground in poultry plants got a hint for me? So tell me, everybody in that industry loves:

A) A-B
B) Siemens
C) Name your favorite

What I *DON'T* want to do is put something in the plants which is beyond the skill of the average plant staff to keep going. But the process is interconnected enough that the machine can't
reliably run in manual control. There's got to be some central controller somewhere.

Thanks in advance,
Michael
--
Michael R. Batchelor - Industrial Informatics & Instrumentation, Inc.
Linux is like a wigwam...
No windows, no gates.
Apache inside.

 

For a PC-based solution, you could go for a variety of PC-engined control solutions from entivity (Think & Do, Steeplechase), A-B and so on. I do not know who has the most market share combined with the best objective / independent reviews (if such a thing exists), but I would lead towards someone in the top tier.

For a PLC-based solution, you are best served by going to an industry leader in a similar manner to PC-based. A-B is a good choice here, but perhaps your target market is in a geographical area better served by Siemens or Modicon.

Spares, lifecycle (PC-based does not do as well here, the operating platforms seem to go away or be upgraded to a new OS every few years) and
support from someone other than you are a good thing to think about.

Whatever your choice, I would avoid a one-off fly-by-night solution - or even an over customised solution with standard hardware. You could be on a job in Peru when the problem crops up or your nifty little system might be unsupportable.

Based on my own experience with going in cold to a facility with no automation knowledge (i.e., their first PLC), it does not matter much between PC-based or PLC-based. I err towards ladder logic in a lot of cases rather than a full IEC 61131.3 suite, because it is easier for front-line
technicians in smaller companies to follow. Many are not familiar with industrial automation and can "get" ladder whereas learning Pascal or
following one of the other IEC languages except ladder can be difficult.

We recently did a material handling system for a customer, their first PLC. It has gone very well, only a few tweaks and lots of smiling faces. They
have no spare parts whatsoever and rely on the local distributor and then the OEM of the control system if something goes bang in the night. We used all industry-standard parts and plain old boring ladder logic. Nothing customised, nothing fancy. They did have us write a VB application off to the side because they did not want a SCADA system at this time for data logging. Obviously that is customised, but you could go with SCADA too.

I like the idea of sticking with one OEM for as much stuff as possible, even if it means skimping on some functionality.

Just random thoughts.

RA

 

Hi Michael,
I've done some food processing applications. To answer your question, the average maintenance persons in those apps, well if WD-40 and a hammer did not fix it, they bypassed it and ordered a replacement to bolt on. Plan on using some means of remote troubleshooting and forcing I/O. When a packing house is down we are talking thousands per hour. A manual override is not feasible but some means to skip PIDs and run without feedback may be in order.

I've had to troubleshoot on a Sunday night and force an input on and re-write a PID into an on off just to get through the night. Don't give them a choice, include the remote thing. Even if they have a local distributor someone has to support the programming.

Robert Pauley
Automation & Control
KB Electronics, Inc.
[email protected]

 

Michael,
The poultry industry is re-bounding of off several years of limited capital expenditures.
Therefore, they have had a long time to generate a wish list. What they need are products that lower their labor costs (meat processing is horribly labor intensive) First, find out if there are any corporate spec's or even leanings. (ie. Customer X was Square D, now AB). Then interview the Plant Engineer or beter, do a plant survey. You will find that they will respect a solution that fits their needs, not yours. I also agree with Robert's assessment of the average "chicken plant mechanic's" skill level. Also, most plants have no I&C Technicians, only a journeyman level electrican.
Finally, your solution/system MUST be robust. I
f it can be broken, they will find a way. I personally would stick to american made products with a nation-wide distribution chain. "If you can't git it at Grainger's, it ain't s--t."
Hope this helps

Paul Gobeille
Sr. Ctrls Engr