INFI-90 DCS VS ABB S+ & Emerson Ovation DCS

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Thread Starter

selvamcastro

We are 80mw powerplant. we need expert advice regarding justification between upgrade and rip/replacement of our existing ABB infi-90 DCS.

Our infi90 is giving trouble and errors are unaccountable and unsolvable, so we are in position to upgrade or replace the system.

We sought OEM help. they suggested the wincad tool which lacks diagnostic function. so we need to upgrade to BRC410 so that they can provide latest engineering tool COMPOSER to identify the error.

upgrade as suggested by OEM replaces all mfp12 (16nos) 4 per FG with brc-410 and 8NPM/NIS, and retains all system components as intact. and HMI to S+operations.

The new system we get ABB HPC800 modular DIN processor with S+ OPERATION and latest COMPOSER OR EMERSON OVATION DCS.

we need expert to compare technical points of our INFI90 rack and card legacy DCS with new DIN modular DCS OF ABB/EMERSON OVATION.

But both cost the same.
 
What exactly is your question? Are you looking to hire someone to do this work or do you have specific technical questions for this project?
 
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selvamtcastro

i just want to compare LEGACY INFI90 DCS and EMERSON OVATION/ABB MODULAR S+ based DCS from technical point of view in order to substantiate between up gradation of INFI 90 and replacement with new DCS.

but both up gradation and replacement costs the same.
 
If you stick with rack mount type BRC410 (not the HPC), and retain your rack IO and associated terminations, I really doubt that the total installed cost, plus risk, is even close. The upgrade from older controllers and logic to the BRC410 and S+ Engineering is largely benign from two perspectives. First, the physical labor requirements are something that can be done in 1 or 2 days. No field wiring is even touched. Ripping the DCS out and replacing with a new one opens you up to the cost associated with the labor, and the risk on the back side if something is not rewired correctly. Second, the logic conversion is so good that you won't even need to do any tuning. That is certainly not the case with a new system.

You must be limiting your comparison to the purchase order to the supplier. Look at the total cost, plus the differences in risk, before making this sort of decision.

If you expand from controllers to include NIS/NPM communication modules, and even new module mounting units, the hardware cost and labor go up to a degree, but because no field cabling is touched, it will still be lower cost and risk compared to a full replacement. I've done the math several times and we are very happy with the results.
 
Hello,

fully agree to the previous post. Look at the total cost, ABB is the BEST partner to evolve (not to migrate) the existing ABB Heritage systems using a step by step approach which is by far superior to what our competitors could provide for our systems.

With ABB's "Evolution without obsolescence" commitment we provide
for incremental, planned steps for adding new Technologies or upgrading technologies in existing Systems while protecting installed asset investments.

Please contact your local ABB Service Team, contacts can be found here:
http://new.abb.com/power-generation/power-plant-automation/harmony

Our evolution experts will make a complete review of your system in order to plan for system obsolescence and justify equipment upgrades with the opportunities offering the greatest ROI and lowest risk. As a result of the study, a long-term roadmap will suggest the best evolution path to increase the efficiency and the productivity of your plant.

Replacing an aging DCS is a major challenge, but as the many examples show, it's one that can be met successfully if customer and supplier are committed to working in a collaborative, open way.

You will find more Information already here in this overview brochure:
http://library.e.abb.com/public/a44f99a685a0d426c12576c40032fa24/PowerGenerationService_100202.pdf
 
Hi,

Looking at the total cost it will not be the same, as a rip-and-replace method (migrating to Emerson) will be far more costly than ABB's Evolution Approach. And looking at the technical point of view, ABB is the BEST partner to evolve (not to migrate) the existing ABB INFI90 system using a step by step approach which is by far superior to what our competitors could provide for these systems.

ABB's "Evolution without obsolescence" commitment offers plant owners the opportunity to maintain and evolve your existing Symphony Harmony control system to our latest generation offerings, thus avoiding the costs and risks associated with rip-and-replace upgrade methods.
Please contact your local ABB Service team. http://new.abb.com/power-generation/service

Our evolution experts make a complete review of your system in order to plan for system obsolescence and justify equipment upgrades with the opportunities offering the greatest ROI. As a result of the study, a long-term roadmap will suggest the best evolution path to increase the efficiency and the productivity of your plant.
 
Dear selvamcastro,

to speed-up the process please find below contact:

Fabio Fargione
ABB SpA - PSPG
Export Sales Service Engineer
email: [email protected]
Mobile: +39 335 65 06 423

from ABB Power Generation. Please send an email or call him, he will Support you in organising an evolution plan for your individual Needs and plant.

Matthias
 
I would suggest like the other posters that you stay with your current DCS supplier if it is ABB. If you want to go with a true "Rip and replace" then I would say look at both ABB and Emerson. But I have personally seen too many sites do a front end or some other kind of hybrid Ovation upgrade and end up with a mess. Emerson will promise the world and never fully follow through. I understand the promises made for a short outage by not performing a rip and replace, but each time I have seen them they are poorly documented and end up requiring a technician to have knowledge of the old system and the new hybrid add on that makes diagnosing issues more difficult than it should be. Just my experience and opinion.


 
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Just my 2 cents. I went from Infi90 plant to an Ovation plant in 2006 and found Emerson to be a far better product for many reasons. Maybe the newer ABB is better and so I cannot comment to that. I found Ovation to be easier to configure and troubleshoot, which were the biggest savings (in reduced downtime and stress.) I had troubles with the redundancy and on line downloads with the Infi90, was buggy and failed many times, while Ovation was straight forward obvious and easy. Infi90 we had a policy of no online work, Ovation- no problem. As far as cost and the type of project, the cost effectiveness is debatable. The increase in the ease of use of Ovation was a huge factor for us. The Infi90 system I worked with was only a few years old (but I was there when it was new) and we were looking at upgrade/migration. Ovation did have a way to use the ABB IO terminal boards then add Ovation controllers but the ABB IO terminal boards were too crowded and problematic for us. Ovation IO and terminations were far better organized. This is just my experience. ABB did the job and they may have improved (significantly) since 2006. Maybe you should visit a running systems and talk to the techs and see firsthand. A good salesman will arrange that. Good Luck!
 
>...I had troubles with the redundancy and on line downloads with the Infi90,
> was buggy and failed many times...Infi90 we had a policy of no online work...

Since we are talking experience, the systems I'm familiar with first hand (about 400 controllers), and the other customers that I'm familiar with, have had the exact opposite of what you described. We have 1983 vintage Net90 systems that were evolved around 1999 and they still run great today. We replace one or two parts at a time if they fail or there is a need to expand. Plus we have online configuration, and have had it since the early 80's - except in a BMS system of course for obvious reasons.

If you are talking about a brand new system, or feel the need to walk away from an investment, it certainly makes sense to shop around for the overall best long term proposition for your facility.

But if you have an investment, it only makes sense to see what you can save with an evolution. If you are having specific problems (such as repeated failures, false alarms, loss of redundancy, the inability to perform reliable online configuration, etc.), put that in the requirements for your existing supplier to address as part of the proposed evolution, and get a guarantee. If they have faith in their product, it should be no problem.
 
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Alain Leclerc

Hello,

We are ABB (Bailey) migration experts... In business since 27 years on this product.

>We are 80mw powerplant. we need expert advice regarding
>justification between upgrade and rip/replacement of our
>existing ABB infi-90 DCS.

We have done many study comparing migration cost and impact on short/medium/long term and provide also automated migration solutions that could eliminate risk and allow On-line replacement.
Just contact us at [email protected] and we will provide you with all information you will need.

Best regards
Alain Leclerc
 
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