Good day all,

I am writing this post to discuss, about Mark6e as Steam Turbine controller/governor FAT activities,....and get details on how this will be done..at engineering platform.

Thank you for your feedback

James

 

@ControlsGuy25,

The FAT (Factory Acceptance Test) for a steam turbine should differ very little from a gas turbine FAT. The primary purpose of an FAT is to demonstrate (as best as possible since it is done using simulation software to simulate the I/O of the turbine and driven device) proper functionality--control, monitoring and protection. It should include demonstrations of the various machine trips--including the alarm text messages and any associated display (Trip Display) functionality. It should demonstrate starting, acceleration, rated speed (FSNL (Full Speed-No Load)) operation, synchronization, loading and unloading/shutdown.

Unfortunately, most people sent to an FAT usually have very little, if any, experience with actually operating a turbine. It's more of a "paid working vacation" where select site personnel get to travel to another country, stay in a nice hotel, have meals paid for, and do a little (possibly a LOT!) of shopping, and some sightseeing. All most people attending an FAT are really interested in is the HMI displays--picking them apart mercilessly for small issues, and wanting many of them to be redone because someone wants more or less shown on the display, or different colors--or flashing indications. Since very often the site personnel sent to the FAT aren't really knowledgeable in machine operation whatever they are shown or is demonstrated is pretty much forgotten before they leave the test area, and certainly before they return to site--EXCEPT HMI display issues (perceived problems).

While HMI display problems are not unusual (as I'm certain you are aware)--the displays aren't the most important part of the FAT. Functionality is (control, machine monitoring, and protection) of primary importance. Good displays aren't going to protect a machine. Good application code is going to protect the machine, and, really, that's the most important part of the purpose of an FAT--demonstrating the control system can properly control and protect the turbine, auxiliaries and driven device. Site personnel attending the FAT should be given color copies of HMI display--to take back to the site and share with supervisors and site management and others not fortunate enough to have been given a paid working vacation to the FAT. Everyone should get copies of the displays and become familiar with the displays as much as possible before and during commissioning. ANY requests for changes to displays should be coordinated through a single supervisor/manager and presented to the packager for review and modification if determined necessary.

You, as an experienced engineer, should be helping any site personnel attending the FAT to pay attention to control and protection functions, pointing out how to monitor normal operation and how to manage alarms. Site personnel need to watch normal start-up procedures (warming of steam lines and valve chests; etc.; other permissives to start; acceleration "holds" if applicable--things which might be very new to some and even if there are experienced people attending the FAT there will probably be some unique aspects of starting and acceleration which should be pointed out, and the factory personnel performing the FAT should be able to explain or answer any questions. Observing what happens when a trip is initiated (what valves close first; when the generator breaker is tripped; etc.) should also be demonstrated several times.

If possible, during the demonstration of a normal start/synch/loading operation, or a normal operator-initiated shutdown, the Trender (Trend Recorder) function of ToolboxST should be demonstrated so that the attendees can see how useful Trender (Trend Recorder) is and how using it WON'T trip the machine (a really good thing to observe when a real, live machine isn't running). AND how it can be used to record normal starts and shutdowns to compare to suspected problematic starts and shutdowns. Introducing site personnel to Trender (Trend Recorder) early is a very good thing for them to be exposed to and to talk to colleagues and supervisors/management when they return and during commissioning (when commissioning personnel are there to help with questions and analysis).

So, if you haven't been to an FAT before it should be clear there is almost always a huge disconnect between the purpose of the FAT and what really happens during an FAT. Any "issues" with HMI displays should be documented and saved for later--because once HMI displays get modified with site personnel watching the request will come fast and furious and the real purpose of an FAT will be forgotten. (In some cases, the factory personnel performing the FAT prefer not going through the control and protection stuff and since many are very familiar with screen modification they are happy to demonstrate their capabilities--to the detriment of the intent of the FAT.)

Most ANY FAT should have some kind of document/plan describing the purpose and the main points of demonstration. Usually, it is something which has been shared with someone at the installation/site who has "approved" the document, maybe even made a change or two (though not likely), and that should be the basis for FAT. (Making screen modifications is usually NOT one of the items on such a document, though it might be mentioned. Again, keep a list of desired display modifications, and if time permits and the basic FAT is complete then display modifications can be undertaken--but they should only be performed AFTER the FAT is complete (per the testing "agenda"/plan).)

Enjoy!

 

@ControlsGuy25,

The FAT (Factory Acceptance Test) for a steam turbine should differ very little from a gas turbine FAT. The primary purpose of an FAT is to demonstrate (as best as possible since it is done using simulation software to simulate the I/O of the turbine and driven device) proper functionality--control, monitoring and protection. It should include demonstrations of the various machine trips--including the alarm text messages and any associated display (Trip Display) functionality. It should demonstrate starting, acceleration, rated speed (FSNL (Full Speed-No Load)) operation, synchronization, loading and unloading/shutdown.

Unfortunately, most people sent to an FAT usually have very little, if any, experience with actually operating a turbine. It's more of a "paid working vacation" where select site personnel get to travel to another country, stay in a nice hotel, have meals paid for, and do a little (possibly a LOT!) of shopping, and some sightseeing. All most people attending an FAT are really interested in is the HMI displays--picking them apart mercilessly for small issues, and wanting many of them to be redone because someone wants more or less shown on the display, or different colors--or flashing indications. Since very often the site personnel sent to the FAT aren't really knowledgeable in machine operation whatever they are shown or is demonstrated is pretty much forgotten before they leave the test area, and certainly before they return to site--EXCEPT HMI display issues (perceived problems).

While HMI display problems are not unusual (as I'm certain you are aware)--the displays aren't the most important part of the FAT. Functionality is (control, machine monitoring, and protection) of primary importance. Good displays aren't going to protect a machine. Good application code is going to protect the machine, and, really, that's the most important part of the purpose of an FAT--demonstrating the control system can properly control and protect the turbine, auxiliaries and driven device. Site personnel attending the FAT should be given color copies of HMI display--to take back to the site and share with supervisors and site management and others not fortunate enough to have been given a paid working vacation to the FAT. Everyone should get copies of the displays and become familiar with the displays as much as possible before and during commissioning. ANY requests for changes to displays should be coordinated through a single supervisor/manager and presented to the packager for review and modification if determined necessary.

You, as an experienced engineer, should be helping any site personnel attending the FAT to pay attention to control and protection functions, pointing out how to monitor normal operation and how to manage alarms. Site personnel need to watch normal start-up procedures (warming of steam lines and valve chests; etc.; other permissives to start; acceleration "holds" if applicable--things which might be very new to some and even if there are experienced people attending the FAT there will probably be some unique aspects of starting and acceleration which should be pointed out, and the factory personnel performing the FAT should be able to explain or answer any questions. Observing what happens when a trip is initiated (what valves close first; when the generator breaker is tripped; etc.) should also be demonstrated several times.

If possible, during the demonstration of a normal start/synch/loading operation, or a normal operator-initiated shutdown, the Trender (Trend Recorder) function of ToolboxST should be demonstrated so that the attendees can see how useful Trender (Trend Recorder) is and how using it WON'T trip the machine (a really good thing to observe when a real, live machine isn't running). AND how it can be used to record normal starts and shutdowns to compare to suspected problematic starts and shutdowns. Introducing site personnel to Trender (Trend Recorder) early is a very good thing for them to be exposed to and to talk to colleagues and supervisors/management when they return and during commissioning (when commissioning personnel are there to help with questions and analysis).

So, if you haven't been to an FAT before it should be clear there is almost always a huge disconnect between the purpose of the FAT and what really happens during an FAT. Any "issues" with HMI displays should be documented and saved for later--because once HMI displays get modified with site personnel watching the request will come fast and furious and the real purpose of an FAT will be forgotten. (In some cases, the factory personnel performing the FAT prefer not going through the control and protection stuff and since many are very familiar with screen modification they are happy to demonstrate their capabilities--to the detriment of the intent of the FAT.)

Most ANY FAT should have some kind of document/plan describing the purpose and the main points of demonstration. Usually, it is something which has been shared with someone at the installation/site who has "approved" the document, maybe even made a change or two (though not likely), and that should be the basis for FAT. (Making screen modifications is usually NOT one of the items on such a document, though it might be mentioned. Again, keep a list of desired display modifications, and if time permits and the basic FAT is complete then display modifications can be undertaken--but they should only be performed AFTER the FAT is complete (per the testing "agenda"/plan).)

Enjoy!

@WTF?

Thank you for these words and advises..!

I did 4 FAT in the past ( last one was in february 2023 )

Client told me yesterday; that they wanted that a experienced engineer, who will editing application code for the
ST deisgned and called Arabelle ( The one used in Nuclear power plant) Alstom legacy , owned during a time by GE Steam Power and now owned by EDF (French electricity national company)
I got your point of view and it is similar to mine, regarding how to proceed during a FAT.

Actually I will do some engineering works, ( in collaboration with other departments) to get that application code ready and compiled and builded into the Mark6e.

I will update this thread asap,

Best Regards,
@ControlsGuy25